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The examples given are from paralinguistic folklore (the 43 words for snow =
didn't happen to come up).  The pidgin involved is reputedly Anglo-Cantones=
e from the 19th century.  I don't know any of these languages either, so I =
have to rely on Whorf, although the Trobriand stuff is probably from Malino=
wski.  Tok Pisin would perhaps do as well as Chinese, but I don't know enou=
gh about to say. (I assume the determine 'pela' is from English "fellow", m=
ore or less).  Sad to say, except for being better at Chinese and maybe act=
ually knowing a flux language, this is pretty much what people with opinion=
s on SWH build on.

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 29, 2011, at 23:56, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:

> On Saturday 29 October 2011 10:42:57 John E Clifford wrote:
>> I see I should have used "allegedly" more freely in that note, especiall=
y
>> since this is a "SWH is false" week. I'm not sure what a sentence from e=
ach
>> such language would do, but I can cite the standard languages of the
>> various types. The plug-and-socket types are shown by SAE languages,
>> Chinese is usually given as a mass language (individuals as slices of th=
e
>> bulk), Trobriand Island as kind (whole present in all its 'manifestation=
s')
>> is usual.  Whorf's choices for flux languages are Menominee and Hopi.
>> Another type of language often talked about, but rarely (if ever) seen, =
is
>> the language which takes the world to be mere sense data popping into an=
d
>> out existence instantaneously (maybe a kind of flux language).
>=20
> "lo xamgu be lo trobriando cu xamgu lo trobriando vau po'o"
> That was all I knew about Trobrianders until I found out that the island =
is in=20
> the Kula ring (a ring of islands near PNG where jewelries called mwali an=
d=20
> soulava are traded in opposite directions). I know nothing of the Trobria=
nder=20
> language, Menominee, or Hopi, and just a few smatterings of Chinese.
>=20
>> As for missing the class, this stuff is often not in classes (I had cour=
ses
>> from both Leonard and Goodman and never saw any calculus of individuals)
>> but in stray reading (xorxes is a pro at this, thank God, so the stuff d=
oes
>> get down to us fairly rapidly).  There used to be a course on Whorf at
>> UCLA, though,  whence many of these jokes (although with a Scandanavian
>> like Harry Hoijer it is hard to be sure which ones are the jokes).
>> As for characteristic instances, the Pidjin "one piecee man" does for
>> masses, "gavagai" for kinds, and for processes, the Hopi name for Weepin=
g
>> Springs is literally "flowing downward whitely".  Whether there is anyth=
ing
>> to all this remains the question (Hoijer's last lecture "Any way you sli=
ce
>> it, it's still baloney").
>=20
> What pidgin is that? I know a fair bit of Tok Pisin, in which one=20
> says "wanpela man". "tu klok" and "tupela klok" are both valid Tok Pisin,=
 but=20
> not synonyms; they mean "two o'clock" and "two clocks" respectively. It d=
oes=20
> have plural number, but not marked on nouns; the plural article "ol" (whi=
ch=20
> also means "they") marks a noun as plural.
>=20
> Pierre
> --=20
> .i toljundi do .ibabo mi'afra tu'a do
> .ibabo damba do .ibabo do jinga
> .icu'u la ma'atman.
>=20
> --=20
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups=
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>=20

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