Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]:57646) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RKc4v-0003FT-8B; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 13:34:10 -0700 Received: by qyk30 with SMTP id 30sf8215960qyk.16 for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 13:33:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-ct-class:x-ct-score:x-ct-refid:x-ct-spam :x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score:message-id:date:from:organization :user-agent:x-accept-language:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/5GQcsvAA3Sazle/OgJoLuGfYaEoYsl8bp1JR62TawE=; b=efTvyGTBSCYUxpebS2ATVfYlj8A3JzIZOlnuykbQBH3iyc0XpZfdkY9NCRDGBbYOAx bRX+ehS3c0uGfNdXjDrHrfx7YMw06Dk+tg47NUc8N8Dos5ik5xUjlVI38fyD6lyd3/sj lZI+Q/JwB1jfISiI2QLm2/kKyDIvHz7eRDDuE= Received: by 10.229.1.207 with SMTP id 15mr425162qcg.23.1320006832010; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 13:33:52 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.198.155 with SMTP id eo27ls1605710qcb.1.gmail; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 13:33:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.33.68 with SMTP id g4mr17639952qad.3.1320006830723; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 13:33:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.33.68 with SMTP id g4mr17639951qad.3.1320006830714; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 13:33:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eastrmfepo101.cox.net (eastrmfepo101.cox.net. [68.230.241.213]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id j29si11908355qcs.2.2011.10.30.13.33.50; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 13:33:50 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 68.230.241.213 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) client-ip=68.230.241.213; Received: from eastrmimpo110.cox.net ([68.230.241.223]) by eastrmfepo101.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.04.00 201-2260-137-20101110) with ESMTP id <20111030203350.TQTX3808.eastrmfepo101.cox.net@eastrmimpo110.cox.net> for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 16:33:50 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.100] ([70.187.237.100]) by eastrmimpo110.cox.net with bizsmtp id r8Zl1h0072AfMYu028ZlvN; Sun, 30 Oct 2011 16:33:49 -0400 X-CT-Class: Clean X-CT-Score: 0.00 X-CT-RefID: str=0001.0A020208.4EADB4AD.008A,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-CT-Spam: 0 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=uJ/qTlwYUPBYhdejbfpiXZ084Nq1odojvP+g2rDuwMA= c=1 sm=1 a=dYDkaTZZu5wA:10 a=imlZSETpPW0A:10 a=xmHE3fpoGJwA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=MQZuvjT3xUZLKv0gclfWMg==:17 a=8YJikuA2AAAA:8 a=55FPLzcixemJ8sC9brkA:9 a=k60mkhaDycNPtt0YkLsA:7 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=Xy1d2M_JUfAA:10 a=dxBpO5_FDU0A:10 a=8JAmEmJLct-7HRJ1:21 a=qX_Qs3qUNz4v6a18:21 a=MQZuvjT3xUZLKv0gclfWMg==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <4EADB4A9.9050903@lojban.org> Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 16:33:45 -0400 From: "Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG" Organization: The Logical Language Group, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: lojban and PR References: <4ae1bfdf-61ba-4539-84e0-0a56a67480fd@u13g2000vbx.googlegroups.com> <17558590.1835.1319383267925.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqbl36> <201110231635.52021.phma@phma.optus.nu>

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In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 68.230.241.213 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) smtp.mail=lojbab@lojban.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Sebastian Fr=F6jd wrote: > just to summarize the discussion here. > It seems that none of you think that it's a good idea to missionize=20 > lojban around the world right now (even if I would like to do just that= =20 > here in Sweden when my lojban-skills are better). I'm not sure what you mean by "missionize". We certainly are interested in promoting new Lojban use, and even better=20 when it is non-native English speakers. We are holding off on starting=20 anything major as an organization, in part because the byfy work needs=20 to be complete, and we need more tools (and probably texts) for Lojban=20 learners, so that if a big push produced a big response, we would be=20 prepared to deal with it. As an organization, we aren't especially promoting "Lojban as an=20 international language" in the sense that many people intend Esperanto,=20 but we have no problem with individuals interested in such a thing doing=20 so on their own, or with like-minded Lojbanists. > Instead you would like to improve the language itself first. Any and all official language changes must go through the byfy process,=20 and there isn't much sentiment for any changes that haven't already seen=20 experimental usage. (See for example the discussion of the "dot side") > Some of you=20 > would like to make huge changes (like Muhammed), that would make it a=20 > totally different language. I don't see why really, since I think lojban= =20 > generally has a great grammatical structure. Others (including me) would= =20 > like to make less significant changes, for example to revise some of the= =20 > word definitions (especielly to be consistent about name of species,=20 > colours, scientifical and metaphysical concepts etc). If we choose to redefine the words whenever someone thinks they have a=20 better definition, the words will never stop changing. If you want a word with a different definition that the one that is=20 there, make a new word - preferably a lujvo. > Matt Arnold: >=20 > "Most of the people who are centrally active in the language do not > want it to become a transnational language. I, for one, see no > benefit, and see a great deal of harm that would do." >=20 > ok, I don't agree since I only see advantages with a global language.=20 There may be advantages, but the body of actual Lojban speakers=20 seemingly aren't that interested in it. In general, people interested=20 in the international language concept have tended to gravitate towards=20 Esperanto, Interlingua and other such languages whose communities are=20 entirely focused on that aspect of language. Some have turned to Lojban, and we welcome such Lojbanists. But there=20 aren't many for whom that is their main interest - or at least those who=20 are interested do not talk about that interest very much. > But if we're going to improve the language, I still insist that we have= =20 > to be more organized. If you want to improve the language, first become a skilled user. Then=20 use the language to gain experience as well as credibility. As far as organization, byfy is the sole organization to consider=20 changes, and right now it is a benevolent dictatorship run by byfy jatna=20 Robin Powell, because too many people say that they want to improve the=20 language definitions, but in several years, very few actually DO what is=20 needed (which starts with solidifying the description of the status quo.) >Who will remember what has been said in this forum > 6 months ago? That is why we retain archives. I think it would be better to have different projects > clearly listed on the lojban web site: grammatical-logical projects,=20 > projects to make templates for constructing new name of species,=20 > terminology in different scientific fields, metaphysical concepts=20 > (philosophy, religion, new age etc), definitions of colors etc etc. And= =20 > to specify how many persons is engaged in each project, the current=20 > status and so on. There is only one such project with official standing, and that is byfy.=20 You should be able to find a great deal about it on the lojban.org=20 website. There is no intent to recognize outside efforts to change the language.=20 We can't stop such things, and won't even try to do so, but there is=20 only one official language, and that is what LLG promotes. lojbab --=20 Bob LeChevalier lojbab@lojban.org www.lojban.org President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.