Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]:47549) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RLCTW-00061U-2g; Tue, 01 Nov 2011 04:25:58 -0700 Received: by wwg7 with SMTP id 7sf7054050wwg.16 for ; Tue, 01 Nov 2011 04:25:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=epQJC5iwnwoM27GrImn7acPUQBYt8/IhpmIx2wmoPos=; b=c6BoXxRfgNBAT7hAJHHo2yPBKZ15ijZd/XyYZICPKn/gHlXlBXIFa9Sh/OAUjdiych Tb0JTeuJ6Bda5DPwWymCP/GY1Uryya0GNXlmfuiX35mBO8zGU6RnTzI0mK0TcyuYboOR sKA89bOrskfFVL584ZUr5zQ2be1D4jweuzfvk= Received: by 10.216.131.80 with SMTP id l58mr555686wei.13.1320146740042; Tue, 01 Nov 2011 04:25:40 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.30.142 with SMTP id k14ls987356eea.4.canary; Tue, 01 Nov 2011 04:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.15.231 with SMTP id f79mr1076332eef.9.1320146738880; Tue, 01 Nov 2011 04:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.15.231 with SMTP id f79mr1076331eef.9.1320146738849; Tue, 01 Nov 2011 04:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ey0-f196.google.com (mail-ey0-f196.google.com [209.85.215.196]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x14si12526002eef.2.2011.11.01.04.25.38 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 01 Nov 2011 04:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of so.cool.ogi@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.196 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.196; Received: by eyh6 with SMTP id 6so1429639eyh.3 for ; Tue, 01 Nov 2011 04:25:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.14.11.87 with SMTP id 63mr1614164eew.9.1320146738086; Tue, 01 Nov 2011 04:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.96.207 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Nov 2011 04:25:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20111101095715.GD15924@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> References: <20111101095715.GD15924@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 12:25:37 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Supporting Lojbanic babies. From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sebastian_Fr=F6jd?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com, lojban-list@lojban.org X-Original-Sender: so.cool.ogi@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of so.cool.ogi@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.196 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=so.cool.ogi@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364c62976004c704b0aa9db7 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --0016364c62976004c704b0aa9db7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Robin, uicai.a'u. it sounds really wonderful having two baby girls at the same time, and also learning them lojban!! I would love to contribute in whatever way I can for you to raise your girls in a loving and developing way. Although my ability to communicate in lojban is very limited, I think I can invent new words, especially in the subject of childcare and pedagogy, since I'm both a pedagog and psychology-sociology student. Personally I don't like the concept of lojbanists using too much fu'ivla, so it would be much better I think using (scientific) adequate lujvo. I've been thinking that if I someday will have another child (I've got a 8-year old daughter), I definitely would like to learn him/her lojban. So some basic things I've been thinking about: - Bilingualists seem to develop language slightly slower, but on the other side they perform better on some cognitive tasks, like creative thinking. Most important thing is to be consistent, that the same person use the same language under the same condition. - Sign language can stimulate early language development. The ideal would be a lojban-based (simplified?) sign language, but since no such thing exists today maybe "baby signs" would be a pretty simple way of communicating with infant as complementary to lojban. Other famous sign languages are american sign language, british sign language, swedish sign language, and in fact every geographic region got their own version. Another benefit of sign language is that it decrease the child's frustration in situations where the child is trying to express it's basic needs with the risk of being misunderstood by the adult. - I don't know how much you have thought about gender issues, but I think no parent would like their children to have fewer chances to attain success. Unfortunately the "sex-typing" phenomena ("which involves treating others differently based on whether they are female or male") tends to form children into a gender-role that eventually will lead girls into a lower status and chance of less success compared to men under the same conditions. I think the gender-neutral potential of lojban together with a gender-critical thinking could be a good tool to help your daughters toward self-realization. - Other good stimulants for infants are massage, baby swimming, natural materials of good quality, good nutrition (organic?), qualitative sensory inputs like warm colors in the environment and classical music (Mozart stimulates intellect and reggae is the favourite music for the baby to sleep according to some research), adults that can act as good behavorial models (they do as you do, not as you say to them) and of course a lot of love!. Not really a lojban topic, but anyway I'm just trying to give you some good advice! Good luck! -jongausib "Meet the child with reverence, raise it with love and let it go in freedom" - Rudolf Steiner 2011/11/1 Robin Lee Powell > > I have recently had the pleasure to witness the birth of my two > amazing girl infants. > > The mother is permitting me (it was a requirement of my helping her > have kids, actually) to natter at them in Lojban, with the intention > of them learning it as a language in the usual way (i.e. by having > it around, rather than by explicit teaching). This will be a bit > wonky as I'm the only person in the household who speaks it, but > it'll be interesting, at least. > > Now, having said that, while I'm pretty good with the language, I > have the same sorts of problems as everybody else: I get stuck > saying things because I don't have the vocabulary or because of lack > of idiom. > > This sort of thing takes a fair bit of effort to overcome (I've been > known to spend multiple hours creating a new word, for example), and > I don't have a lot of spare effort available, because, as previously > mentioned, I'm *raising infant twins*. This limits my available > time. Pretty extremely. > > It is likely that the Lojban community has some pretty strong > interest in helping out with this project. :) > > So, if you'd like to help, here's what I'd like: > > 1. An indication here if you'd be willing to help with vocab/idiom > issues. My ideal here would be that I send a post here (perhaps > with "jboverba" in the subject always?) with "I tried to say "why is > your lip quivering?" today and failed" or so, and y'all figure it > out, and I ignore the thread, and then someone emails me directly > with the result. Knowing that there's a pool of people willing to > help there would be lovely. > > 2. Right now my sleep schedule has been modified to accomodate the > household's needs, and this is likely to last for a few weeks. In > particular, I have some dead time between about midnight and about > 06:00 US/Pacific time. People being around to chat with in Lojban > would be lovely. Ideally, be on IRC and then we'll skype. I don't > necessarily need people to do any talking, I just need more practice > at emitting at full speed. If the other person understands me, so > much the better. :) > > 3. The birth story is somewhat unusual and interesting. Would you > be interested in hearing it, in Lojban? I was thinking of doing it > on IRC, so it could be preserved for posterity; would someone be > willing to turn it into something readable? I would need a variety > of vocab, in particular words for "labour" and "labour contraction" > and "cervical dilation". fu'ivla seem like decent choices there. > Or, hell, cmevla. We don't use cmevla enough for highly technical > things around here. > > I think that's it. > > -Robin > > -- > http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" > is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016364c62976004c704b0aa9db7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Robin,
uicai.a'u. it sounds really wonderful having two baby girl= s at the same time, and also learning them lojban!!
I would love to con= tribute in whatever way I can for you to raise your girls in a loving and d= eveloping way.
Although my ability to communicate in lojban is very limited, I think I can= invent new words, especially in the subject of childcare and pedagogy, sin= ce I'm both a pedagog and psychology-sociology student. Personally I do= n't like the concept of lojbanists using too much fu'ivla, so it wo= uld be much better I think using (scientific) adequate lujvo.
I've been thinking that if I someday will have another child (I've = got a 8-year old daughter), I definitely would like to learn him/her lojban= .
So some basic things I've been thinking about:
- Bilingualists = seem to develop language slightly slower, but on the other side they perfor= m better on some cognitive tasks, like creative thinking. Most important th= ing is to be consistent, that the same person use the same language under t= he same condition.

- Sign language can stimulate early language development. The ideal wou= ld be a lojban-based (simplified?) sign language, but since no such thing e= xists today maybe "baby signs" would be a pretty simple way of co= mmunicating with infant as complementary to lojban. Other famous sign langu= ages are american sign language, british sign language, swedish sign langua= ge, and in fact every geographic region got their own version.
Another benefit of sign language is that it decrease the child's frustr= ation in situations where the child is trying to express it's basic nee= ds with the risk of being misunderstood by the adult.

- I don't = know how much you have thought about gender issues, but I think no parent w= ould like their children to have fewer chances to attain success. Unfortuna= tely the "sex-typing" phenomena ("which involves treating ot= hers differently based on whether they are female or male") tends to f= orm children into a gender-role that eventually will lead girls into a lowe= r status and chance of less success compared to men under the same conditio= ns. I think the gender-neutral potential of lojban together with a gender-c= ritical thinking could be a good tool to help your daughters toward self-re= alization.

- Other good stimulants for infants are massage, baby swimming, natural= materials of good quality, good nutrition (organic?), qualitative sensory = inputs like warm colors in the environment and classical music (Mozart stim= ulates intellect and reggae is the favourite music for the baby to sleep ac= cording to some research), adults that can act as good behavorial models (t= hey do as you do, not as you say to them) and of course a lot of love!. Not= really a lojban topic, but anyway I'm just trying to give you some goo= d advice! Good luck!

-jongausib

"Meet the child with reverence, raise it with lo= ve and let it go in freedom" - Rudolf Steiner


2011/11/1 Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>

I have recently had the pleasure to witness the birth of my two
amazing girl infants.

The mother is permitting me (it was a requirement of my helping her
have kids, actually) to natter at them in Lojban, with the intention
of them learning it as a language in the usual way (i.e. by having
it around, rather than by explicit teaching). =A0This will be a bit
wonky as I'm the only person in the household who speaks it, but
it'll be interesting, at least.

Now, having said that, while I'm pretty good with the language, I
have the same sorts of problems as everybody else: I get stuck
saying things because I don't have the vocabulary or because of lack of idiom.

This sort of thing takes a fair bit of effort to overcome (I've been known to spend multiple hours creating a new word, for example), and
I don't have a lot of spare effort available, because, as previously mentioned, I'm *raising infant twins*. =A0This limits my available
time. =A0Pretty extremely.

It is likely that the Lojban community has some pretty strong
interest in helping out with this project. =A0:)

So, if you'd like to help, here's what I'd like:

1. =A0An indication here if you'd be willing to help with vocab/idiom issues. =A0My ideal here would be that I send a post here (perhaps
with "jboverba" in the subject always?) with "I tried to say= "why is
your lip quivering?" today and failed" or so, and y'all figur= e it
out, and I ignore the thread, and then someone emails me directly
with the result. =A0Knowing that there's a pool of people willing to help there would be lovely.

2. =A0Right now my sleep schedule has been modified to accomodate the
household's needs, and this is likely to last for a few weeks. =A0In particular, I have some dead time between about midnight and about
06:00 US/Pacific time. =A0People being around to chat with in Lojban
would be lovely. =A0Ideally, be on IRC and then we'll skype. =A0I don&#= 39;t
necessarily need people to do any talking, I just need more practice
at emitting at full speed. =A0If the other person understands me, so
much the better. =A0:)

3. =A0The birth story is somewhat unusual and interesting. =A0Would you
be interested in hearing it, in Lojban? =A0I was thinking of doing it
on IRC, so it could be preserved for posterity; would someone be
willing to turn it into something readable? =A0I would need a variety
of vocab, in particular words for "labour" and "labour contr= action"
and "cervical dilation". =A0fu'ivla seem like decent choices = there.
Or, hell, cmevla. =A0We don't use cmevla enough for highly technical things around here.

I think that's it.

-Robin

--
http://singinst.org/= : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.loj= ban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this senten= ce is false"
is "na nei". =A0 My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
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--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
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