Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]:60461)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCK30vq5WEJaew_UEGgQp893w@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1RLSz0-0006r0-MF; Tue, 01 Nov 2011 22:03:36 -0700
Received: by pzk4 with SMTP id 4sf12128539pzk.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Tue, 01 Nov 2011 22:03:20 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id
         :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent
         :sender:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to
         :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post
         :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type
         :content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding;
        bh=zF/f7z/3qbhofj78su4H/uVr8WguH+PVCOkdDtcb6yo=;
        b=H4eyq00FeA4gPZMiwZBIzfEJSpF+Kp3FOmpk3r8hvwUUVBmmVNr3m8tKcSOuVAS2cb
         vaJdk4xDLFxWqr6Aj66pzfHYzj9YbVOj6U3BJwcg+jgrwsED/YZ4KvA5adDWf6KJzGIj
         Pvjj2kNP3JcTVx8oLn8xIW9L2KJFfFSrzATNc=
Received: by 10.68.73.65 with SMTP id j1mr470083pbv.19.1320210198216;
        Tue, 01 Nov 2011 22:03:18 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.68.42.101 with SMTP id n5ls539141pbl.6.gmail; Tue, 01 Nov 2011
 22:03:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.68.50.169 with SMTP id d9mr2645870pbo.0.1320210197210;
        Tue, 01 Nov 2011 22:03:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.68.50.169 with SMTP id d9mr2645869pbo.0.1320210197195;
        Tue, 01 Nov 2011 22:03:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from stodi.digitalkingdom.org (mail.digitalkingdom.org. [173.13.139.236])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r5si1302648pbe.1.2011.11.01.22.03.17
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Tue, 01 Nov 2011 22:03:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rlpowell@stodi.digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.236 as permitted sender) client-ip=173.13.139.236;
Received: from rlpowell by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <rlpowell@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>)
	id 1RLSyq-0006qx-3M
	for lojban@googlegroups.com; Tue, 01 Nov 2011 22:03:16 -0700
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 22:03:16 -0700
From: Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Supporting Lojbanic babies.
Message-ID: <20111102050315.GC26004@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>
Mail-Followup-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
References: <20111101095715.GD15924@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>
 <CAKv2tT4OyPKL6F=kHZrn9uhAZqbd4Wz3WKztzf4iFtjaSSqzow@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAKv2tT4OyPKL6F=kHZrn9uhAZqbd4Wz3WKztzf4iFtjaSSqzow@mail.gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15)
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of rlpowell@stodi.digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.236 as
 permitted sender) smtp.mail=rlpowell@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.0
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /

I'm snipping a lot because I replied elsewhere or have no useful
response besides "I agree" or "interesting".

On Tue, Nov 01, 2011 at 12:25:37PM +0100, Sebastian Fr=F6jd wrote:
>
> - Sign language can stimulate early language development. The ideal would
> be a lojban-based (simplified?) sign language,=20

I've been thinking about it for a while, and I think the idea of
"lojban-based sign language" is a bankrupt concept.  The sorts of
things that you would do in a 2 or 3 dimensional spatial language
that have the same sort of coolness factor and rigorousness as
Lojban would look *NOTHING* like Lojban itself, at all, and would
not be remotely compatible.  Imagine, as a random example, nesting
of lo-nu style clauses by moving down and to one side for each new
clause, rather than having terminators.

I can't see that Signed Exact Lojban, which is the other option
here, would have any advantages versus just learning ASL or
whatever.  If there was a half-way decent or well supported
international sign auxlang I'd be very interested in that, but I
don't think there is.

> - I don't know how much you have thought about gender issues, but
> I think no parent would like their children to have fewer chances
> to attain success.=20

We have thought and talked about that a *great* deal.
Unfortunately, in a language with sex/gender specific pronouns,
our options are limited; refusing to disk the babies' sex just means
that people are hostile around them all the time, and that's not
fair to them.

> Unfortunately the "sex-typing" phenomena ("which involves treating
> others differently based on whether they are female or male")
> tends to form children into a gender-role that eventually will
> lead girls into a lower status and chance of less success compared
> to men under the same conditions. I think the gender-neutral
> potential of lojban together with a gender-critical thinking could
> be a good tool to help your daughters toward self-realization.

Yes, I certainly have gender-critical thinking, although I'd not
heard that term before, very high on my mental list of how to raise
them.  As a side comment, my favorite baby book so far is
http://www.amazon.com/Brain-Rules-Baby-Raise-Smart/dp/0979777755
because it's got lots of great research.

> - Other good stimulants for infants are massage, baby swimming,
> natural materials of good quality, good nutrition (organic?),
> qualitative sensory inputs like warm colors in the environment and
> classical music (Mozart stimulates intellect and reggae is the
> favourite music for the baby to sleep according to some research),

Yeah, you really want to read the book I just linked; the Mozart
thing is crap, I'm afraid.

> adults that can act as good behavorial models (they do as you do,
> not as you say to them) and of course a lot of love!. Not really a
> lojban topic, but anyway I'm just trying to give you some good
> advice! Good luck!

Thanks!

-Robin

--=20
http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.