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Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 01:32:52 -0700
From: Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Use fu'ivla more (was Re: [lojban] Supporting Lojbanic babies.)
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I like that trick.

And yeah, I meant all of them.  Except maybe stage-3, which are kind
of awful.  :D

But mostly I wasn't even thinking of *importing* words from other
languages so much as *coining* new words in fu'ivla space.

-Robin

On Wed, Nov 02, 2011 at 10:41:04AM -0500, Adam Lopresto wrote:
> That is very interesting, and I'll have to give it some thought.
> You seem to be arguing mostly for stage-4 fu'ivla; what about
> stage-1 and stage-2 borrowings? It might be handy to use them
> liberally, particularly with something like {cei}, to define later
> text.
> 
> .i me la'oi contraction cei kantrakto .i co'e li'o
> 
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 7:32 PM, Robin Lee Powell <
> rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Nov 01, 2011 at 10:06:38AM -0600, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> > > On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 3:57 AM, Robin Lee Powell <
> > > rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > 3.  The birth story is somewhat unusual and interesting.  Would
> > > > you be interested in hearing it, in Lojban?  I was thinking of
> > > > doing it on IRC, so it could be preserved for posterity; would
> > > > someone be willing to turn it into something readable?  I would
> > > > need a variety of vocab, in particular words for "labour" and
> > > > "labour contraction" and "cervical dilation".  fu'ivla seem like
> > > > decent choices there. Or, hell, cmevla.  We don't use cmevla
> > > > enough for highly technical things around here.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I'm rather busy with college right now, so I can't help in either
> > > of those areas currently, but I am interested, and considering
> > > this is a long-term deal, my ability, time constraints, etc. will
> > > no doubt change. I don't see why you think fu'ivla or cmevla are
> > > preferable to lujvo, though.
> >
> > Lujvo should only be used, IMO, when you need more than one place
> > from the relevant gismu.  If all you *actually* want is "x1 is a
> > foobie [of type x2]", that's a fu'ivle or cmevla.  I can imagine
> > that a word for "labour contraction" with an actual interesting
> > place structure could be made ("x1 is having contractions x2 minutes
> > apart lasting for x3 minutes each" OSLT), but it's far from
> > necessary, and none of those places leap out to me as being gismu
> > places *anyways*.
> >
> > IOW, if you can't look at the *place structure* and say "that's a
> > place from gasnu, and that's two places from krici, and that's two
> > places from kubli", then what you have is not naturally a lujvo
> > style place structure, and you should consider not using lujvo.
> >
> > Many many many specific/technical terms people try to make lujvo for
> > shouldn't be, IMO.  Pretty much all computer stuff, for starters;
> > "x1 is a motherboard" is all you want out of a word for
> > "motherboard", which means you're not going to use any of the places
> > of the 5 gismu you tacked together to make a lujvo for that, so it
> > shouldn't be a lujvo.
> >
> > When you only expect to need the word for this current conversation,
> > you can and should (IMO) use cmevla instead.  "ry lifri pa la
> > kyntraktcyn" is (if that's a legal cmevla) perfectly fine for one
> > conversation; unless we're starting the Lojban obstetrical
> > department, who fucking cares?
> >
> > Those of you who have known me for a long time, xorxes especially,
> > will note that this is a significant reversal of my previous stance.
> > I think it's about how much time you've spent trying to actually
> > spin whole sentences in Lojban in real time; IME most people who
> > have done a lot of that start to develop a fondness for fu'ivla.
> >
> > I also think we, as a community, need to have less of a bug up our
> > ass about picking the "right" natlang word for fu'ivla.  First off,
> > who cares if there's a bunch of English-based words floating around?
> > The won't sound like English after the conversion, and if it bothers
> > you, make your next fu'ivla from german, or swahili.  Secondly, why
> > not do it based on Lojban?  Look at a few relevant gismu or lujvo,
> > and make it sound like them.  Avoids the whole problem very
> > effectively.
> >
> > -Robin
> >
> > --
> > http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
> > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
> > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
> > is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
> >
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> >
> >
> 
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-- 
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Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/

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