Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]:34369)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCML0xpmUARDelc_1BBoEmj24yg@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1RMHqj-0008Qo-2A; Fri, 04 Nov 2011 04:22:21 -0700
Received: by wye20 with SMTP id 20sf4354393wye.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Fri, 04 Nov 2011 04:22:09 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
         :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=fVe0CrkF21h3kZGQtxjFlqVh0rdhavOZf3wFPpirjkI=;
        b=lTrd6IZRBZqIqinErBu931ta4L1DUhHy9kVkffsRR7usKHwZ4A1ndhqrz9kw4jYuWi
         bcL/i8Tkzbsq4PR5Lj0W3jn1Mo8nihxxYr7zqIOgbtjp1X/lOvE7KBj7Iry9ZjcmRup9
         AiAGkMzeqrDtijBqsvK0NruaCs8NDtdc9A7qM=
Received: by 10.216.80.31 with SMTP id j31mr485573wee.14.1320405726838;
        Fri, 04 Nov 2011 04:22:06 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.14.24.220 with SMTP id x68ls824389eex.3.gmail; Fri, 04 Nov
 2011 04:22:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.213.23.20 with SMTP id p20mr41793ebb.0.1320405725765;
        Fri, 04 Nov 2011 04:22:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.213.23.20 with SMTP id p20mr41792ebb.0.1320405725730;
        Fri, 04 Nov 2011 04:22:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-fx0-f54.google.com (mail-fx0-f54.google.com [209.85.161.54])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t21si1427115faf.0.2011.11.04.04.22.05
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Fri, 04 Nov 2011 04:22:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.54 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.54;
Received: by mail-fx0-f54.google.com with SMTP id r19so3736409faa.13
        for <lojban@googlegroups.com>; Fri, 04 Nov 2011 04:22:05 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.223.75.129 with SMTP id y1mr7678228faj.34.1320405725556; Fri,
 04 Nov 2011 04:22:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.223.81.66 with HTTP; Fri, 4 Nov 2011 04:22:05 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CAPAJj9KCYgBPD6rjEheiuV4V7F5eG7P2UNUHB+6qhpBDoSAw=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPAJj9KCYgBPD6rjEheiuV4V7F5eG7P2UNUHB+6qhpBDoSAw=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 07:22:05 -0400
Message-ID: <CA+gZtgK7Y9T8bGubz4a16ww8B+jZM0GJjyKckv7_yN9FNkub-A@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] 'standard' bridi form
From: Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.54 as permitted
 sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c1bee3b31f004b0e6ea9d
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.7
X-Spam_score_int: -6
X-Spam_bar: /

--0015174c1bee3b31f004b0e6ea9d
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I don't think establishing this as a standard in writing is such a good
idea, but yes, I agree that that's standard in practice. The concrete
evidence that supports this subjective idea is that {broda ko'a} and {ko'a
broda} in the absence of any other sumti are different. So the x1 being
before the selbri is "special" while anything else being before the selbri
is not.

mu'o mi'e latros

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 5:30 AM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:

> Do you agree with this CLL 9.2 statement:
>
>  This ordering, with the x1 place before the selbri and all other
> places in natural order after the selbri, is called standard bridi
> form, and is found in the bulk of Lojban bridi, whether used in main
> sentences or in subordinate clauses.
>
> Would you say that
>
>  ko'a broda ko'e
>
> or
>
>  ko'a broda gi'e brode vau ko'e
>
> is more 'standard' than
>
>  ko'a ko'e broda
>
> or
>
>  ko'a ko'e broda gi'e brode
>
> mu'o
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.


--0015174c1bee3b31f004b0e6ea9d
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I don&#39;t think establishing this as a standard in writing is such a good=
 idea, but yes, I agree that that&#39;s standard in practice. The concrete =
evidence that supports this subjective idea is that {broda ko&#39;a} and {k=
o&#39;a broda} in the absence of any other sumti are different. So the x1 b=
eing before the selbri is &quot;special&quot; while anything else being bef=
ore the selbri is not.<br>
<br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e latros<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov =
4, 2011 at 5:30 AM, tijlan <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jbotijla=
n@gmail.com">jbotijlan@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex;">
Do you agree with this CLL 9.2 statement:<br>
<br>
 =A0This ordering, with the x1 place before the selbri and all other<br>
places in natural order after the selbri, is called standard bridi<br>
form, and is found in the bulk of Lojban bridi, whether used in main<br>
sentences or in subordinate clauses.<br>
<br>
Would you say that<br>
<br>
 =A0ko&#39;a broda ko&#39;e<br>
<br>
or<br>
<br>
 =A0ko&#39;a broda gi&#39;e brode vau ko&#39;e<br>
<br>
is more &#39;standard&#39; than<br>
<br>
 =A0ko&#39;a ko&#39;e broda<br>
<br>
or<br>
<br>
 =A0ko&#39;a ko&#39;e broda gi&#39;e brode<br>
<br>
mu&#39;o<br>
<font color=3D"#888888"><br>
--<br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.=
com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban%2Bun=
subscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/lojba=
n?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
<br>
</font></blockquote></div><br>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.<br />



--0015174c1bee3b31f004b0e6ea9d--