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Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 17:40:20 +0000
From: And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable
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Jorge Llamb=EDas, On 05/11/2011 15:20:
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 11:49 PM, And Rosta<and.rosta@gmail.com>  wrote:
>> Jorge Llamb=EDas, On 05/11/2011 01:51:
>>>
>>> The whole point of xorlo was to get away from the idea that "lo
>>> ransedyta'u" was equivalent to "su'o ransedyta'u".
>>
>> They're different because su'o is scope-sensitive and lo isn't, but I se=
e no
>> difference between {PA ransedyta'u cu se dasni ro faspre} and {ro faspre=
 cu
>> dasni lo PA ransedyta'u} (where PA is {pa} in each or {su'o} in each).
>
> For me an outer PA immediately suggests a non-singleton domain, which
> "lo pa" explicitly contradicts, so getting "pa ransedyta'u cu se dasni
> ro faspre" and "ro faspre cu dasni lo pa ransedyta'u" to give me the
> same picture takes some effort.

Aha, yes of course. Now I do see the difference.

I presume you'd agree with me that "pa mapku cu se dasni ro faspre" can be =
true (in a world where they all wear berets)? In Blobular metaphysics, that=
 is, rather than Martin's preferred Ready-Made.

>> Of
>> course, if you stuck {na ku} in front, they'd become nonequivalent again=
,
>> because that would trigger the scope-sensitivity of PA.
>
> In the domain in which both are true, sticking a "na ku" in front
> would make them both false, so why would they become nonequivalent?

{na ku pa broda cu brode} is true if {re broda cu brode}, and if the number=
 of brodas that brode is anything but 1. {na ku lo broda cu brode} means th=
e same as {lo broda na ku brode}.

In other words they'd become non-equivalent relative to general truth-condi=
tions, not relative to a particular domain in which both unnegated versions=
 were true.

--And.

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