Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]:59693)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRCJhNv1BBoEFIGVJQ@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1RN6PK-0002xr-Qn; Sun, 06 Nov 2011 09:21:32 -0800
Received: by gyg4 with SMTP id 4sf5044335gyg.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Sun, 06 Nov 2011 09:21:16 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-newman-property:x-yahoo-newman-id
         :x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references:message-id:date:from:subject:to
         :in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type
         :content-transfer-encoding;
        bh=MEFh8uCj5CpfzolUSBLmNtBVKTHw9cEcc34Pc5k8ylY=;
        b=qCTYsLifuZMjfUmOIr8cD1yEcphn6EX9RgD6jdW0Q+PFBilZrnGJmMiMzTll7HGN/h
         Rq7Zy8Dy3ZdchSdaouvDL/L5HTuomiz8y38BncCu9EuNVR/yXxLr+87GGfYxT50qvbkS
         5u3DJ3rt9aC64mwY7/KgBzS4zBX6gXo5/EEkk=
Received: by 10.236.112.242 with SMTP id y78mr6586519yhg.3.1320600073844;
        Sun, 06 Nov 2011 09:21:13 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.101.2.12 with SMTP id e12ls10507329ani.3.gmail; Sun, 06 Nov
 2011 09:21:13 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.101.133.31 with SMTP id k31mr5413903ann.34.1320600073001;
        Sun, 06 Nov 2011 09:21:13 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.101.133.31 with SMTP id k31mr5413902ann.34.1320600072980;
        Sun, 06 Nov 2011 09:21:12 -0800 (PST)
Received: from nm12-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm12-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com. [66.94.236.11])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id r38si7152736ano.2.2011.11.06.09.21.12;
        Sun, 06 Nov 2011 09:21:12 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.236.11 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.94.236.11;
Received: from [66.94.237.197] by nm12.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Nov 2011 17:21:12 -0000
Received: from [66.94.237.102] by tm8.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Nov 2011 17:21:12 -0000
Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1007.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Nov 2011 17:21:12 -0000
X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 681376.70596.bm@omp1007.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com
Received: (qmail 6954 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Nov 2011 17:21:12 -0000
X-YMail-OSG: 00TRBvkVM1k4fjOgXo_JCupbFHI_az8vQ80VsXRGkfBDjCt
 icZB_F16o_0MoFWvQPaUSZMXvjMu7cUQJIFmAj9XzXF3uassvZARz1BhN6pw
 3Im.LrbegslmorgZ.hswFP5n0sSce9sTnIwWjIxKCefsRFclvg4UJR5rrn5Z
 TIQtUSTpipWTQunvSBAxn4e1ezzo8IsSXKHHeY18BvlHTeU8LQB7.pHRwObd
 i1kPdrAVm2N20y8dhWAgNWGFg0kxGr.5NPtUx5.cm.LlXmbcykNDXA9L32hd
 lxr.Bv71141WEbKBrYW0ctriLl9xKscrbr_OZQMAq6iCeCYnnp1r.cb0rrZQ
 wJSUy7T0e8sxlfDkXVtcsEHNVI3dqWi1bk9l5VddcQ8mlZ6cZvp0pBt6.dnv
 c.8pFc4lSh2I2w2e3aTFj4nmYXIc54D1NFS.DD5VSVkeIzmf46Mcy49MNdKT
 zLPW3JjwF7JsvURVx5uHQ9oUQ3uHdot_2xpCpibRB1cFsS_gYKm8Drq22f.8
 fDAidJAArfzgxEOOk.1TG0H1NSo8x9HxK3znBnKds
Received: from [99.92.108.41] by web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 06 Nov 2011 09:21:12 PST
X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/574 YahooMailWebService/0.8.114.317681
References: <20111104233756.GB24058@gonzales> <4EB4A123.7030305@gmail.com> <20111105061247.GE24058@gonzales> <4EB526B7.7070008@gmail.com> <20111105172216.GI24058@gonzales> <CAO7tK2dug7A3=o873E=uLCKT3047yU2y0wfqV0NADRtcJ7agTg@mail.gmail.com> <20111105201536.GB835@gonzales> <CAO7tK2exiMaR4r2D+C6PezFOXVHL_uTc5YPxvAf4m515-Pt+7Q@mail.gmail.com> <20111105233402.GA2831@gonzales> <CAO7tK2fYiAW_zW6eqo3hrvbD3tKE5j6R8LAa2nXRmtRisg469g@mail.gmail.com> <20111106033146.GC2831@gonzales> <1320585372.5586.YahooMailRC@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <CAO7tK2c+6_LPKK40=4=08JkQ_kUu=SVuzdtwq3GLP2vZNSrt8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1320600072.82050.YahooMailRC@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 09:21:12 -0800 (PST)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
In-Reply-To: <CAO7tK2c+6_LPKK40=4=08JkQ_kUu=SVuzdtwq3GLP2vZNSrt8A@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.236.11
 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Spam_score: 0.0
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /

I have avoided talking about gadri other than {lo} and {le} because I think=
=20
that, until those two are clarified, talk about the others is spinning whee=
ls in=20
midair. There is, of course also the problem that no one is sure what "set"=
 and=20
"mass" mean at this point.
I am only mildly surprised that you claim that lionness is not a possible=
=20
meaning for {cinfo}, but the way that you state it fails to convince, since=
, in=20
(lo ka cinof na cinfo} you have set up a context in which lioness is set up=
 in=20
opposition to whatever {cinfo} now means.  This does not preclude {lo cinfo=
},=20
for example, referring to lionness in an appropriate situation.  If you hol=
d=20
that no situation could be appropriate for that meaning, then I wonder a bi=
t=20
about your commitment to blobularism or about what limits you have (unstate=
dly)=20
placed on the blob.




----- Original Message ----
From: Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, November 6, 2011 10:16:14 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural=
=20
variable

On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 10:16 AM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wro=
te:
> Somebody (the layered responses without summaries makes it difficult to
> figure out who is advocating what) holds that, in a given conversation,=
=20
> {cinfo}
> (for example) may mean any of at least: Lion, lions, lion, lion segments
> (temporally defined), lion kinds, lionness.

I think everybody is in agremment that "lo ka cinfo na cinfo" (and
also that "lo'i cinfo na cinfo", although you don't mention that one).

On the other hand, I am in favor of redefining some predicates that
explicitly call for "lo ka cinfo" or for "lo'i cinfo" for some of
their arguments in such a way that they should call for "lo cinfo"
instead. But that's a redefinition of the predicate, not an
implication that "lo ka cinfo cu cinfo" or that "lo'i cinfo cu cinfo".

mu'o mi'e xorxes

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups=
=20
"lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to=20
lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at=20
http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.