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Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 12:28:16 -0800 (PST)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable
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Yup. "lionness" (I forget about autocorrect and may well have mistyped it t=
o=20
begin with) and, barring some serious (re?)thinking about what {ka} does, i=
t=20
means the same as {lo/le ka cinfo}.
The problem with {lo'i} nowadays, is whether it refers to C-sets or L-sets.=
One=20
is traditional, the other more useful.
I am more than a little surprised (in my natural state, not in reading your=
=20
stuff) to learn that Lion has claws and a skin and eats meat, it seems with=
er to=20
amorphous or too abstract for any of these things.  Its exemplars do these=
=20
things of course, but not it,  Nor, of course, does the cinfo which Lion do=
es=20
involve any of these things directly.  So how are lionness and sets of lion=
s=20
different?

From: Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, November 6, 2011 1:03:50 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural=
=20
variable

On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 2:21 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrot=
e:
> I have avoided talking about gadri other than {lo} and {le} because I thi=
nk
> that, until those two are clarified, talk about the others is spinning wh=
eels=20
>in
> midair. There is, of course also the problem that no one is sure what "se=
t"=20
and
> "mass" mean at this point.

I don't remember ever being much disagreement about "lo'i". We sort of
take it straight out of set theory.

> I am only mildly surprised that you claim that lionness is not a possible
> meaning for {cinfo}, but the way that you state it fails to convince, sin=
ce,=20
in
> (lo ka cinof na cinfo} you have set up a context in which lioness is set =
up in
> opposition to whatever {cinfo} now means.  This does not preclude {lo cin=
fo},
> for example, referring to lionness in an appropriate situation.  If you h=
old
> that no situation could be appropriate for that meaning, then I wonder a =
bit
> about your commitment to blobularism or about what limits you have=20
(unstatedly)
> placed on the blob.

I'd have to see what kind of situation you have in mind.

The reason I think lo ka cinfo and lo'i cinfo are different is that lo
cinfo for me needs tobe able to have skin, to have color, to roar, to
eat, and all other things lions can do, and I can't really picture
sets or properties doing any of these things. It may also very well be
that what you mean by "lionness" is not what I mean by "lo ka cinfo".

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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