Received: from mail-bw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.214.61]:33392)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDyhdz1BBoER-jDNw@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1RNAjM-0004hQ-AZ; Sun, 06 Nov 2011 13:58:26 -0800
Received: by bkat2 with SMTP id t2sf4083643bka.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Sun, 06 Nov 2011 13:58:12 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
         :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type
         :content-transfer-encoding;
        bh=B8dVyt0hJkr7AH3JCawX4yhFUe0qLYEnw4NsqgAZQZw=;
        b=3iEzCz2W44Gl2HCAMD3wG37RGLQQIeYfZqCv0yFyG16/nh1mk9WHegnTFFukCT6R8I
         x+wFjg2Re+SjIGAyt/E9xZffOkaB9hZny3tEzu8O9NVvsGd6czH/Lld4l0QpZ4MRX229
         SEm5tCXp1SkChlYyKwBLHNILgbFl2KX73kkh4=
Received: by 10.204.133.208 with SMTP id g16mr2399589bkt.31.1320616690192;
        Sun, 06 Nov 2011 13:58:10 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.204.33.136 with SMTP id h8ls10738740bkd.0.gmail; Sun, 06 Nov
 2011 13:58:09 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.204.184.2 with SMTP id ci2mr2787401bkb.7.1320616689131;
        Sun, 06 Nov 2011 13:58:09 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.204.184.2 with SMTP id ci2mr2787400bkb.7.1320616689119;
        Sun, 06 Nov 2011 13:58:09 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-fx0-f44.google.com (mail-fx0-f44.google.com [209.85.161.44])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h3si8871645fao.3.2011.11.06.13.58.09
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Sun, 06 Nov 2011 13:58:09 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.44 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.44;
Received: by faas12 with SMTP id s12so4491860faa.3
        for <lojban@googlegroups.com>; Sun, 06 Nov 2011 13:58:09 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.152.105.83 with SMTP id gk19mr5373171lab.30.1320616688962;
 Sun, 06 Nov 2011 13:58:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.152.19.198 with HTTP; Sun, 6 Nov 2011 13:58:08 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <20111106211140.GC2703@gonzales>
References: <20111105172216.GI24058@gonzales>
	<CAO7tK2dug7A3=o873E=uLCKT3047yU2y0wfqV0NADRtcJ7agTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20111105201536.GB835@gonzales>
	<CAO7tK2exiMaR4r2D+C6PezFOXVHL_uTc5YPxvAf4m515-Pt+7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<20111105233402.GA2831@gonzales>
	<CAO7tK2fYiAW_zW6eqo3hrvbD3tKE5j6R8LAa2nXRmtRisg469g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20111106033146.GC2831@gonzales>
	<CAO7tK2fPNuhoeT=TDMa5JMrDVwhX9Jo=tHMGpz6h0SfKj8R2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20111106182701.GA2703@gonzales>
	<CAO7tK2eiy-gOPbeYxZ99T0Eu16ZMm9BnyVUZHgFxvZGa3a7JFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20111106211140.GC2703@gonzales>
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 18:58:08 -0300
Message-ID: <CAO7tK2eGvghRNjU03O7UKP0J6zTr1ukhZUsaRq3=LmXMs2VMig@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.44 as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Spam_score: 0.0
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /

On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org> wrote:
> * Sunday, 2011-11-06 at 17:15 -0300 - Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.=
com>:
>
>>  I
>> think you would need to say that everything is either a beret, a
>> bowler, or neither. (And the double exclusive or is hard!)
>
> Hmm? Why not just {no da ranmapku gi'e bolmapku}?

Right, that's equivalent.

>> And even so, mere set disjointness doesn't seem to get at the heart of
>> the matter, which is probably in the x3 of klesi:
>>
>> "lo ranmapku jo'u lo bolmapku cu ficysi'u lo ka ce'u klesi lo mapku ma k=
au"
>
> Yes, good. So I'd want to add three characters:
> {lo ranmaplei jo'u lo bolmaplei cu ficysi'u lo ka ce'u klesi lo maplei ma=
 kau}

You could extend that method to all predicates. So instead of:

  lo prenu cu klama lo zarci lo zdani lo dargu lo karce

you can say:

  lo prekla cu klama lo zacyselkla lo zdaterkla lo dagvelkla lo karcyxelkla

>> >> Why is beret - hat - garment artificial?
>> > But they're all on the same level, no?
>> As kinds? A beret is a kind of hat, and a hat is a kind of garment.
>
> I'm only seeing two levels there - one containing berets and hats, and
> one containing kinds of hat and kinds of garment.

One level contains the garment, next level down the hat, next level
down the beret (and a fourth level I hadn't mentioned because it won't
enter into a klesi relationship contains some particular individual
beret.) So "klesi" relates two things from different levels.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.