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[66.94.237.220]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id g4si10115559anh.0.2011.11.06.14.19.48; Sun, 06 Nov 2011 14:19:48 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.237.220 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.94.237.220; Received: from [66.94.237.197] by nm19.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Nov 2011 22:19:48 -0000 Received: from [66.94.237.98] by tm8.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Nov 2011 22:19:48 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1003.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Nov 2011 22:19:48 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 150800.12484.bm@omp1003.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 47421 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Nov 2011 22:19:48 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: h9Xgnk8VM1lDs8.N7JwP0.jWR6JZCcWG60BryG5jNCic2ju AGIKGCCnQD4xeOROzR1k4sUr4jXJngvYm_sb5T6mL1Sz8OHff41TvsMV57xX WxfdkVug0QrHCb._R3_9EebPs73JhUQUNnFfotgQuNBMqvWg_yS655jfQnGn UhK_kkl4mC7DLYnRhQy4kg7J8._TW5z0ToFKT22dImRNwgJbc0qBYhgbVfxb gCUx4_VGKXpD4cEzRILlyzvFKPQHeaZT4culD3p63FNXgAZnuhkjqRcVz1pm OqDVvnEGXTjfeMvU16.pqH9N5SoqWjTA2_osDadRZyNw6osntXVdEtS5D_l9 5f2UyNaEOgTaNeAFL0QZmjGe7HZ1U8Y.jSQz5jafZjvIWgoL6L4flGKBvFUt NKOtt7CMYLgOZQvf0AiQhBn8GMN9LRvr5weZXdrzNWmhB6CatcdveQtU.LQ1 QbFYiUQ_sNw77cKtPSO37uNnVdFt5hwgOXxhAGgb1Rqy1fBoj0b4.roQ.Ujc dBqvc9FG4WTrZuXnaVq6cgcQbOpD1cd.dg_PV7dNR Received: from [99.92.108.41] by web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 06 Nov 2011 14:19:47 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/574 YahooMailWebService/0.8.114.317681 References: <20111105061247.GE24058@gonzales> <4EB526B7.7070008@gmail.com> <20111105172216.GI24058@gonzales> <20111105201536.GB835@gonzales> <20111105233402.GA2831@gonzales> <20111106033146.GC2831@gonzales> <1320585372.5586.YahooMailRC@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20111106151024.GA3071@gonzales> <4EB6C69A.4060201@gmail.com> <1320610085.59297.YahooMailRC@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4EB6F4A6.80706@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1320617987.41942.YahooMailRC@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 14:19:47 -0800 (PST) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: <4EB6F4A6.80706@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.237.220 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Gee, what is the argument about (except, of course, {zo'e})? It is quite true that plugs have almost no character (maybe none at all) until they plug into something, but what of that? Does the blob have any character until a property is carved out of it -- or at least pointed out in it? I can imagine a carefully worked out notion, related to blobularism in a way, which would not be plugs and sockets, but this ain't it, at least as so far hinted at (not to say described). Readymadeism is just the "common sense" view of the world, induced from every experience (so we are taught) in our lives and embedded deep in our language. When linguists (barring the odd Vedic version) came along and invented their science and its technology in English and German and French (and a bit in a few other essentially similar languages), that world view, if you will, got incorporated into the metatheory, so that, for example, S > NP + VP is virtually an axiom, though, happily, "every noun has five cases" no longer is. ----- Original Message ---- From: And Rosta To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, November 6, 2011 2:57:10 PM Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable John E Clifford, On 06/11/2011 20:08: > But of course your positiion is not SAE denying but rather another SAE case. > Ready Madeism, if I understand it, is no more a prioristic than Blobularism; > both are induced from experiences and language learning It doesn't seem to me that Ready-Madeism is induced, or at least not on the basis of anything more than the most cursory consideration of experience and language; and instead it seems to be selected for its formalizability. I don't know if that's an egregious misrepresentation of history. > -- by Western trained linguists and so come up as SAE again (ditto > for semantics of natural languages, which have historically been > built on [linguists' understanding of ] formal logic). If all contemporary linguists count as Western-trained. > It's all plugs and sockets and we just argue about what can be a plug. Is a predicate a body of sockets, into which arguments plug? If so, then I'd argue that there's virtually nothing to say about plugs -- you need know nothing about them but their identity, so that you can tell whether two sockets do or don't share the same plug. And the argument is about something else. --And. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.