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Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 14:37:09 -0800 (PST)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable
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So, Flatso, the a posteriori method discovers that we almost never talk about 
what we are talking about but only about things on The Great Chain of Being.  
Nice reversal of history!  One can certainly differ -- though not in your view 
of languagwe -- about whether to describe something as Lion or lion or bunch of 
lions or ... .  But that means that they describre them (and, presumably, 
experience them) differently, not by using exactly the same terms for all of 
them -- at least once they become aware that they are different things.  The 
various talks are more or less intertranslatable, I suppose, but that doesn't 
mean they are about or say the same things.  

What is the role of tokens the, since we can't talk about them?  And what does 
"lionhood" mean if it is not something that has tokens -- or some kind of 
representatives -- in spacetime?



----- Original Message ----
From: And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, November 6, 2011 3:07:35 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural 
variable

John E Clifford, On 06/11/2011 20:41:
> Am I to infer from this that Lion is actually lion and so exists in space 
time,
> rather than a kind, which exists in some intensional realm.  Or do you 
actually
> mean that Lion is just a bunch of lions looked at in one way as opposed to 
some
> other?

Lion is actually lion and so exists in space time. But speakers may differ on 
whether to describe something as (or on whether they perceive something to be) 
Lion or a lion or a bunch of lions.

I personally believe that language (in general, not just Lojban) deals only in 
things that are in some intensional realm, but certain types of intensional 
things have instances/tokens in spacetime. But all talk is about types, not 
tokens. Lion is a type that does have tokens in spacetime, but lionhood is a 
type that doesn't. Within the intensional realm, Lion is classified among 
quadrupeds and things with skin and things with tokens in spacetime.

--And.

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