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Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 01:10:56 +0000
From: And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable
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John E Clifford, On 06/11/2011 22:37:
> So, Flatso, the a posteriori method discovers that we almost never talk about
> what we are talking about but only about things on The Great Chain of Being.
> Nice reversal of history!  One can certainly differ -- though not in your view
> of languagwe -- about whether to describe something as Lion or lion or bunch of
> lions or ... .

No, in my view of language you can make these distinctions. But they're all intensional. But anyway, I only mentioned my view because you'd asked about whether something was intensional; but I don't want to divert the thread into discussion of my view.

>But that means that they describre them (and, presumably,
> experience them) differently, not by using exactly the same terms for all of
> them -- at least once they become aware that they are different things.  The
> various talks are more or less intertranslatable, I suppose, but that doesn't
> mean they are about or say the same things.
>
> What is the role of tokens the, since we can't talk about them?  And what does
> "lionhood" mean if it is not something that has tokens -- or some kind of
> representatives -- in spacetime?

Something akin to a formula, a checklist, a set of rules defining what it takes for something to be a lion.

--And.

>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: And Rosta<and.rosta@gmail.com>
> To: lojban@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Sun, November 6, 2011 3:07:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural
> variable
>
> John E Clifford, On 06/11/2011 20:41:
>> Am I to infer from this that Lion is actually lion and so exists in space
> time,
>> rather than a kind, which exists in some intensional realm.  Or do you
> actually
>> mean that Lion is just a bunch of lions looked at in one way as opposed to
> some
>> other?
>
> Lion is actually lion and so exists in space time. But speakers may differ on
> whether to describe something as (or on whether they perceive something to be)
> Lion or a lion or a bunch of lions.
>
> I personally believe that language (in general, not just Lojban) deals only in
> things that are in some intensional realm, but certain types of intensional
> things have instances/tokens in spacetime. But all talk is about types, not
> tokens. Lion is a type that does have tokens in spacetime, but lionhood is a
> type that doesn't. Within the intensional realm, Lion is classified among
> quadrupeds and things with skin and things with tokens in spacetime.
>
> --And.
>
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