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Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 23:52:33 -0800
From: Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] babies: "you might as well sleep"
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 Content preview:  On Sun, Nov 06, 2011 at 04:40:30PM +0000, tijlan wrote: >
   On 6 November 2011 05:36, Robin Lee Powell > <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
    wrote: > > On Sat, Nov 05, 2011 at 11:05:58AM -0300, Jorge Llambías wrote:
    > >> On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Robin Lee Powell > >> <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
    wrote: > >> > On Fri, Nov 04, 2011 at 10:37:29AM -0300, Jorge Llambías >
   >> > wrote: > >> >> > >> >> "might as well" means "have no reason not to",
    so you could > >> >> say ".ei no da fanta lo nu do sipna". > >> > > >> >
   What's the {.ei} there for? > >> > >> Just to make it a little less presumptuous:
    "there ought to be > >> nothing preventing you from sleeping" instead of
   a plain > >> "nothing prevents you from sleeping". You could leave it out
   > >> too. > > > > Huh. That's not what I think {.ei} means at all. I read
   that > > as "I, the speaker, am feeling obligated/constrained about > > something
    having to do with nothing preventing you from > > sleeping". I don't get
   your use there at all. > > The personal feeling that there is an obligation
    can be > independent of how the goal is to be achieved. For example, I >
   could be feeling that a broken public bridge in my town ought to > be repaired
    but not that the repairer ought to be me myself. {.ei > cikre lo cripu} wouldn't
    necessarily mean that the speaker is > feeling personally obligated to do
    anything for the bridge [...] 
 
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On Sun, Nov 06, 2011 at 04:40:30PM +0000, tijlan wrote:
> On 6 November 2011 05:36, Robin Lee Powell
> <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 05, 2011 at 11:05:58AM -0300, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote:
> >> On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Robin Lee Powell
> >> <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> >> > On Fri, Nov 04, 2011 at 10:37:29AM -0300, Jorge Llamb=EDas
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> "might as well" means "have no reason not to", so you could
> >> >> say ".ei no da fanta lo nu do sipna".
> >> >
> >> > What's the {.ei} there for?
> >>
> >> Just to make it a little less presumptuous: "there ought to be
> >> nothing preventing you from sleeping" instead of a plain
> >> "nothing prevents you from sleeping". You could leave it out
> >> too.
> >
> > Huh. =A0That's not what I think {.ei} means at all. =A0I read that
> > as "I, the speaker, am feeling obligated/constrained about
> > something having to do with nothing preventing you from
> > sleeping". =A0I don't get your use there at all.
>=20
> The personal feeling that there is an obligation can be
> independent of how the goal is to be achieved. For example, I
> could be feeling that a broken public bridge in my town ought to
> be repaired but not that the repairer ought to be me myself. {.ei
> cikre lo cripu} wouldn't necessarily mean that the speaker is
> feeling personally obligated to do anything for the bridge

I *strongly* disagree.  The whole *point* of UI is that they express
immediate emotions *of the speaker*.  See
http://dag.github.com/cll/13/3/

> any more than that {cikre lo cripu} just ought to be brought about
> by whatever agent.

UI are not propositions.

-Robin

--=20
http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/

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