Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]:45707) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RNTUS-0007sS-Rc; Mon, 07 Nov 2011 10:00:19 -0800 Received: by vws16 with SMTP id 16sf839996vws.16 for ; Mon, 07 Nov 2011 10:00:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:date:from:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=QxdMUL6NjKay0UK9A0YQdeG7X8kpQWulwvks/EX0PoU=; b=BiGDlbHoBjP6BZLhbzMj60afE1tZuI/oznerO1tikxZVtpk4iUczmExUEu6EnsV0dQ uAzO4qtDT+W7v8A7jGA8b1o1KIfpWdSp65WnxkfTaWCpka0GLkkjV8eNIGBhQQBiclrv gJVHHI7aNoZFe+Nb4cXlKIhZwT1BDXoDCd3dI= Received: by 10.52.72.199 with SMTP id f7mr4806060vdv.11.1320688803579; Mon, 07 Nov 2011 10:00:03 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.215.71 with SMTP id hd7ls7437213vcb.5.gmail; Mon, 07 Nov 2011 10:00:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.236.46.130 with SMTP id r2mr39198261yhb.7.1320688802952; Mon, 07 Nov 2011 10:00:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.236.46.130 with SMTP id r2mr39198257yhb.7.1320688802939; Mon, 07 Nov 2011 10:00:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yw0-f49.google.com (mail-yw0-f49.google.com [209.85.213.49]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n75si4588398yhe.3.2011.11.07.10.00.02 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 07 Nov 2011 10:00:02 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of celestialcognition@gmail.com designates 209.85.213.49 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.213.49; Received: by ywn1 with SMTP id 1so6373829ywn.36 for ; Mon, 07 Nov 2011 10:00:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.236.173.202 with SMTP id v50mr32904720yhl.102.1320688802015; Mon, 07 Nov 2011 10:00:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.103] (76-76-236-67.lisco.net. [76.76.236.67]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c44sm29104744yhm.5.2011.11.07.10.00.00 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 07 Nov 2011 10:00:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4EB81C9F.4090300@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 11:59:59 -0600 From: vitci'i User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.23) Gecko/20110921 Thunderbird/3.1.15 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] gender References: <201111062057.24471.phma@phma.optus.nu> <4EB73D68.8090506@gmail.com> <201111062230.31412.phma@phma.optus.nu> <4EB7526A.2070508@gmail.com>

<1320681459.44222.YahooMailRC@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1320687357.85830.YahooMailRC@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1320687357.85830.YahooMailRC@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Original-Sender: celestialcognition@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of celestialcognition@gmail.com designates 209.85.213.49 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=celestialcognition@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / One gismu for all of them, with a place to specify which one you're talking about. On 11/07/2011 11:35 AM, John E Clifford wrote: > Which "gender" should have a gismu? grammatical, phenotypic, social, cult= ural,=20 > intentional, genetic, ... >=20 > But just because gender is a complex concept, I don't think you can ignor= e it. > I'm studying sociology, so I use the word gender a lot in different disco= urses.=20 > First I was surprised that gender doesn't have a gismu. > How can you even discuss gender issues without a word for it? > How do you say "I'm studying gender science" in lojban? Or "He has no rig= ht to=20 > oppress me just because we have different sex/gender"? > /jongausib >=20 >=20 > 2011/11/7 John E Clifford >=20 > Gloryoski! Why should Lojban be able to sort out things that the experts= in the=20 > field can't yet get straight? Grammatical gender is defined by concordan= ce and=20 > has, in a few languages, some more than casual relation to some physical= =20 > features of the referents. Other languages have derivational devices (ot= her=20 > than concordance) to signal (somewhat more regularly) such physical featu= res=20 > (along with others, e.g., size, age). Still others basically don't notice= . As=20 > for the features involved, the range is enormous. And when you throw in = genetic=20 > data or cultural norms or internal intentions, you pass well beyond what= =20 > languages manage to deal with comfortably (or even uncomfortably). >> >> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________ > From: Sebastian Fr=F6jd >> To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" >> Sent: Mon, November 7, 2011 6:11:47 AM >> Subject: Re: [lojban] gender >> >> >> I like the word tarbykansa. So twins would be reltarbykansa or remei=20 > tarbykansa? >> >> Den m=E5ndagen den 7:e november 2011 skrev Sebastian=20 > Fr=F6jd: >>> Well, it seems a bit far-fetched, but on a very abstract level perhaps = you may=20 >>> experience some sort of gendered-grammatical-sexual tense between mascu= line and=20 >>> feminine (and neutral) words. O maybe you can use zilselgencinse: ? >>> c1=3Dg1 [word/object] exhibits grammatical defined gender/(sexual=20 >>> orientation/sexuality) c3 (ka) in language/standard c4/g2 for structure= /text g3 >>> >>> /jongausib >>> >>> 2011/11/7 vitci'i >>>> >>>> On 11/06/2011 09:30 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: >>>>> On Sunday 06 November 2011 21:07:36 vitci'i wrote: >>>>>> On 11/06/2011 07:57 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: >>>>>>> Yes, but what does x2 of "gencinse" mean? >>>>>> >>>>>> Where did "gencinse" come from? >>>>> >>>>> Most Indo-European and Afro-Asiatic languages have it. I guess "x1 is= a=20 >> word >>>>> of gender x3", but what sexual (or gendered) activities does a word= =20 > partake >>>>> in? >>>>> >>>> >>>> Just to clarify: when I asked where it came from, I meant how it enter= ed >>>> into the conversation, not what its etymology was. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups=20 >>>> "lojban" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to=20 >>>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at=20 >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >>>> >>> >>> --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.