Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]:56235) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RO0U0-0007mA-O8; Tue, 08 Nov 2011 21:13:57 -0800 Received: by yenq10 with SMTP id q10sf185733yen.16 for ; Tue, 08 Nov 2011 21:13:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:date:from:reply-to:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=1sN/ZR2X0Piza7VMje+5BsVTZsEoy0yBAdRPLixU1dg=; b=VyvxvosjlVHyDUANlag4yffeSYcwJoIGtvq8IT8+iUxV9y+DlJH2fSDhT2E31G/BQm SVp1pgR2hjmzAifufeUDd/y1mNz5SplK0jJcShUi6zNgTkSJJ4du3w5pFvwCudqAm7E5 I9iQe1Oq7lbYX18hd9bhL8jEEri5xSG+8ZrpY= Received: by 10.236.123.113 with SMTP id u77mr144293yhh.8.1320815627683; Tue, 08 Nov 2011 21:13:47 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.100.237.8 with SMTP id k8ls482429anh.2.gmail; Tue, 08 Nov 2011 21:13:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.236.175.7 with SMTP id y7mr31547yhl.20.1320815626924; Tue, 08 Nov 2011 21:13:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 21:13:44 -0800 (PST) From: djandus Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-ID: <7641736.693.1320815625242.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqpp12> In-Reply-To: References: <201111062057.24471.phma@phma.optus.nu> <4EB73D68.8090506@gmail.com> <201111062230.31412.phma@phma.optus.nu> <4EB7526A.2070508@gmail.com> <1320681459.44222.YahooMailRC@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1320687357.85830.YahooMailRC@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4EB81C9F.4090300@gmail.com> <1320689797.1887.4.camel@fagricipni-desktop> <4EB823B4.4080700@gmail.com> <4EB82487.1080608@gmail.com> <4EB82819.2010603@gmail.com> <35370FB6-7C1C-4B21-80EF-56F2213B58DE@yahoo.com> <4EB845AE.3080907@gmail.com> <1320722048.69601.YahooMailRC@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] gender MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: jandew@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jandew@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jandew@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_692_33149606.1320815625237" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_692_33149606.1320815625237 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The way I see it, gismu are preferably things that can be *clearly* defined. If the meaning isn't apparent, then how are we supposed to use it? When I look at the issue of gender, I see a few different things: the question of what kind of gametes you have, which is generally the same as... the question of what kind of gamete-producing structure you have, which is {terganti} the question of what your 23rd chromosomal pair consists of, which is related to {jgina be fi lo ganti} and, finally, the question of whether you are male or female, which is entirely culturally defined. *There is no way to define it explicity.* For this reason, I'm of the opinion that if you need to use a word as culture-specific as "male" or "female" (or analogous words in other languages), then use fu'ivla or, simply, {la}. It's not that it's too complicated to be a word, it's that it's too culturally dependent to be a lojban gismu. NOTE: I purposefully left sexual preference off the list. At least to me, I've always been able to easily separate "male vs. female" from sexual preference throughout my upbringing. Similarly, Lojban already has them clearly separated already. (tercinse) So, IMO, that issue's already covered. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/NbpyKzs8fEkJ. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. ------=_Part_692_33149606.1320815625237 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The way I see it, gismu are preferably things that can be clearly&nb= sp;defined. If the meaning isn't apparent, then how are we supposed to use = it?

When I look at the issue of gender, I see a few diff= erent things:
the question of what kind of gametes you have, whic= h is generally the same as...
the question of what kind of gamete= -producing structure you have, which is {terganti}
the question o= f what your 23rd chromosomal pair consists of, which is related to {jgina b= e fi lo ganti}
and, finally,
the question of whether yo= u are male or female, which is entirely culturally defined. There is no = way to define it explicity. For this reason, I'm of the opinion th= at if you need to use a word as culture-specific as "male" or "female" (or = analogous words in other languages), then use fu'ivla or, simply, {la}.

It's not that it's too complicated to be a word, it's= that it's too culturally dependent to be a lojban gismu.

NOTE: I purposefully left sexual preference off the list. At least = to me, I've always been able to easily separate "male vs. female" from sexu= al preference throughout my upbringing. Similarly, Lojban already has them = clearly separated already. (tercinse) So, IMO, that issue's already covered= .

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