Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]:34290) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RO42L-0001BM-Eg; Wed, 09 Nov 2011 01:01:51 -0800 Received: by wye20 with SMTP id 20sf1908945wye.16 for ; Wed, 09 Nov 2011 01:01:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=VSnUUzTND1fj65cYodj3ckoZDyX5NifjuTifhm3K4RM=; b=naOBRI9aiidetZTc2JrdDPU18z6p2CzeJ7vpRSXyluTyEK28PiYFnPyNxro2E/l8jB RQMrb0VRIA6JccIbt84eGy3g8oVcM14ysQYipe5VSnKlAJquYajgh9NgMrKkz9KiqE1F 2u/PQFP6VTNJAu4m6EBdA2qKWKO5TQeSlPawU= Received: by 10.216.52.14 with SMTP id d14mr27826wec.21.1320829223957; Wed, 09 Nov 2011 01:00:23 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.24.83 with SMTP id w59ls49243eew.6.gmail; Wed, 09 Nov 2011 01:00:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.14.18.98 with SMTP id k74mr73421eek.6.1320829222911; Wed, 09 Nov 2011 01:00:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.14.18.98 with SMTP id k74mr73420eek.6.1320829222890; Wed, 09 Nov 2011 01:00:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ey0-f180.google.com (mail-ey0-f180.google.com [209.85.215.180]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i11si2458211eea.0.2011.11.09.01.00.22 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 09 Nov 2011 01:00:22 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of so.cool.ogi@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.180; Received: by mail-ey0-f180.google.com with SMTP id 5so1901029eyg.39 for ; Wed, 09 Nov 2011 01:00:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.14.16.97 with SMTP id g73mr104388eeg.73.1320829222653; Wed, 09 Nov 2011 01:00:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.14.97.77 with HTTP; Wed, 9 Nov 2011 01:00:22 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <17294635.733.1320160412847.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqce21> <15299677.1288.1320305653443.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnx19> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 10:00:22 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: A new guide that needs guidance From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sebastian_Fr=F6jd?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: so.cool.ogi@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of so.cool.ogi@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.180 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=so.cool.ogi@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e65a0f5aa00eea04b1498421 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --0016e65a0f5aa00eea04b1498421 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I understand that most jbopli today are using the Roman alphabet, and that's fine, but not really cultural neutral. So I don't understand why {lo'a} is defined as "shift letterals to *Lojban* (Roman) alphabet." I think every alphabet should be equally lojbanic, or? If lojban would have a default alphabet I think it should be Tengwar, since that's the most cultural neutral (and also phonetical) alphabet. Anyway, I'm already using tengwar sometimes, so I really think it would be nice to have a BY1 for tengwar also. Maybe {te'i}? mu'o mi'e jongausib 2011/11/8 Michael Turniansky > No, they ALL are....the je'o, ga'e, jo'o, etc. simply specify the context > of what follows. The fact that we normally default to a lo'a context is > simply convention. I could have had any number of other lerfu, PA, heck, > even whole paragraphs after using "je'o" before using the "kybu" and it > would meant "=D7=A7", and not "q" > --gejyspa > > > > On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 5:55 AM, Michael Turniansky < >> mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> 2011/11/3 Jonathan Jones >>> >>>> 2011/11/3 M. Nael >>>> >>>> We do. The name of Q is "kybu". >>>>> >>>>> I meant more distinctive names, as per the example I mentioned for >>>>> Arabic =D8=AC >>>>> >>>> I don't know what you mean by distinctive. Each name is associated >>>> with exactly one thing. .uibu, for example, is the name of ":)". You c= an't >>>> use .uibu to refer to anything else. >>>> >>>> >>> Well, that's not exactly true. Depends on context. For example ky b= u >>> is q, ga'e ky bu is Q, je'o ky bu is =D7=A7 and presumably jo'o ky bu = is =D9=82 >>> (forgive me if I have that wrong, Muhammad) >>> >>> --gejyspa >>> >> >> Every one of those examples is different, gejyspa, and illustrates what = I >> said perfectly. {je'o ky. bu} is not {ky bu}. >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --0016e65a0f5aa00eea04b1498421 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I understand that most jbopli today are using the Roman alphabet, and that&= #39;s fine, but not really cultural neutral. So I don't understand why = {lo'a} is defined as "shift letterals to Lojban (Roman) alp= habet." I think every alphabet should be equally lojbanic, or? If lojb= an would have a default alphabet I think it should be Tengwar, since that&#= 39;s the most cultural neutral (and also phonetical) alphabet. Anyway, I= 9;m already using tengwar sometimes, so I really think it would be nice to = have a BY1 for tengwar also. Maybe {te'i}?
mu'o mi'e jongausib

2011/11/8 Mic= hael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
No, they ALL are....the je'o, ga'e, jo'o,= etc. simply specify the context of what follows.=C2=A0 The fact that we no= rmally default to a lo'a context is simply convention. I could have had= any number of other lerfu, PA, heck, even whole=C2=A0paragraphs after usin= g "je'o" before using the "kybu" and it would meant= "=D7=A7", and not "q"
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 --gejyspa


=C2=A0
On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Jonathan Jones <= span dir=3D"ltr"><eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 5:55 AM, Michael Turnians= ky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:


2011/11/3 Jonathan Jones <<= a href=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">eyeonus@gmail.com= >
2011/11/3 M. Nael <muhammad.nael@gmail.c= om>

We d= o. The name of Q is "kybu".
I meant more distinctive names, as per the example I mentioned for Ara= bic =D8=AC
I don't know what you mean by distinctive. Each name is associated= with exactly one thing. .uibu, for example, is the name of ":)".= You can't use .uibu to refer to anything else.
=C2=A0
=C2=A0 Well, that's not exactly true.=C2=A0 = Depends on context.=C2=A0 For example ky bu is q, ga'e ky bu is Q, je&#= 39;o ky bu is=C2=A0 =D7=A7 and presumably jo'o ky bu is=C2=A0=D9=82 (fo= rgive me if I have that wrong, Muhammad)
=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 --gejyspa

Every one of those examples is diffe= rent, gejyspa, and illustrates what I said perfectly. {je'o ky. bu} is = not {ky bu}.=20


--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e= 9;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(C= ome to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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=

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