Received: from mail-bw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.214.61]:36548) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ROXvY-0004fj-W8; Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:56:44 -0800 Received: by bkat2 with SMTP id t2sf2397359bka.16 for ; Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:56:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Hp8352flVp+/7qRGspj64stSzuFAKIhmjJCaphfpOkU=; b=zGQ5WLgzXnd7g9cxBYr66zEyKyiwZ4c/NYHCU3OxdlT/nrF8f00JDqfS8q88OR+Tuy MaqgSqrg0plloWdYOLI5JbMrnTSzFv5RLai3l9AU1GIx+PyEdDR294ueI69ixN4A7Ncd L1tKHVWSyPstpdDbfCnwVYqXuCjMiyOD8kxSQ= Received: by 10.205.132.80 with SMTP id ht16mr840354bkc.1.1320944186394; Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:56:26 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.152.154 with SMTP id g26ls7501320bkw.3.gmail; Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:56:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.154.136 with SMTP id o8mr1057060bkw.2.1320944185203; Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:56:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.154.136 with SMTP id o8mr1057059bkw.2.1320944185180; Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:56:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-bw0-f44.google.com (mail-bw0-f44.google.com [209.85.214.44]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h3si4648426fao.3.2011.11.10.08.56.25 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:56:25 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.44 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.44; Received: by mail-bw0-f44.google.com with SMTP id zv15so4222526bkb.17 for ; Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:56:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.9.1 with SMTP id j1mr5587756bkj.57.1320944184908; Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:56:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.41.68 with HTTP; Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:56:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20111110070826.GT19979@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> References: <20111106230135.GM21434@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <20111107073107.GI21492@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <20111108075231.GK21492@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <20111110070826.GT19979@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:56:24 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] baby words, sort of: catlu vs. zgana From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.44 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00151758f34ce8dd8d04b164483b X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --00151758f34ce8dd8d04b164483b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 2:08 AM, Robin Lee Powell < rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: > On Tue, Nov 08, 2011 at 08:56:41AM -0300, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 4:52 AM, Robin Lee Powell > > wrote: > > > On Mon, Nov 07, 2011 at 06:44:32PM -0300, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > > >> > > >> The goal of catlu is viska, but it's possible to catlu and fail > > >> to viska. > > > > > > *chuckle* > > > > > > Come on, xorxes; we've been playing this game long enough that > > > you should know that you making a bare assertion like that isn't > > > good enough. > > > > > > Again: I see no evidence at all in the definitions that what you > > > just said is actually, ya know, *true*. How do you justify it? > > > > > > It would be really nice if, instead of making me drag the entire > > > chain of thought in your head out one link at a time, you would > > > generate the next 3 links or so and save us both some trouble. > > > > I just didn't think I was saying anything so remarkable. > > As usual. :D > > > The first definition of "look" I find in > > http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/look is: "to turn one's > > eyes toward something or in some direction in order to see" > > > > If you think the relationship between "catlu" and "viska" is other > > than the relation between "look" and "see", or if you can find a > > more precise way to express that relation than with "troci", > > please do. > > AFA*I*CT, catlu and viska are pure synonyms; that's why I asked. > > Ah, but I see how you're getting that out of catlu. Ok, yeah, I > think I'm with you. > > While we're looking at those words, what the hell does "note that > English "look" often means a more generic "observe"" mean?, from the > catlu and viska definitions? > > -Robin > Actually, that's what it says under "catlu" what it says under "viska" is the (more correct) "note that English "see" often means "look" or a more generic observe", or even "understand, know"" As in "I see you're getting taller", or "I see your point". Or, "I see that someone's been in the Halloween candy again". I doubt "look" is used in those senses (although "look for" as in "I looked for signs of life, but he was dead" can)) --gejsypa -- --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --00151758f34ce8dd8d04b164483b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 2:08 AM, Robin Lee Powel= l <rlpo= well@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 08, 2011 at 08:56:41AM -0300, Jorge Llamb=EDa= s wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 4:52 AM, Robin Lee Powell
> &= lt;rlpowell@digitalkingdom.o= rg> wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 07, 2011 at 06:44:32PM -0300, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote:=
> >>
> >> The goal of catlu is viska, but it's= possible to catlu and fail
> >> to viska.
> >
>= > *chuckle*
> >
> > Come on, xorxes; we've been playing this game lo= ng enough that
> > you should know that you making a bare assertio= n like that isn't
> > good enough.
> >
> > A= gain: I see no evidence at all in the definitions that what you
> > just said is actually, ya know, *true*. =A0How do you justify it?=
> >
> > It would be really nice if, instead of making me= drag the entire
> > chain of thought in your head out one link at= a time, you would
> > generate the next 3 links or so and save us both some trouble.>
> I just didn't think I was saying anything so remarkable.<= br>
As usual. =A0:D

> The first definition of "look" I find = in
> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/look is: "to tu= rn one's
> eyes toward something or in some direction in order to see"
&g= t;
> If you think the relationship between "catlu" and &quo= t;viska" is other
> than the relation between "look" a= nd "see", or if you can find a
> more precise way to express that relation than with "troci",=
> please do.

AFA*I*CT, catlu and viska are pure synonym= s; that's why I asked.

Ah, but I see how you're getting that= out of catlu. =A0Ok, yeah, I
think I'm with you.

While we're looking at those words, what= the hell does "note that
English "look" often means a mo= re generic "observe"" mean?, from the
catlu and viska def= initions?

-Robin
=A0 Actually, that's what it says under "catlu" what it = says under "viska" is the (more correct) "note that English = "see" often means "look" or a more generic=A0observe&qu= ot;, or even "understand, know""=A0=A0 As in "I see you= 're getting taller", or "I see your point". Or, "I = see that someone's been in the Halloween candy again".=A0 I doubt = "look" is used in those senses (although "look for" as = in "I looked for signs of life, but he was dead" can))
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejsypa
=A0
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --

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