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Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 22:24:54 +0000
From: And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Logical languages impossible to Learn?
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I really think that in that paragraph Edmund Blair Bolles is talking utter =
shite. I'm not aware of any uncited source he might have got it from, so it=
 looks as though he made it all up himself. With that kind of drivel around=
, it's no wonder that any academic who cares about their scholarly reputati=
on would steer well clear of loglans -- as of course they in fact do do.

Michael Turniansky, On 08/11/2011 21:32:
> http://www.babelsdawn.com/babels_dawn/2008/08/on-human-nature.html:
> "It is generally said that an infant can learn any language, but it turns=
 out to be relatively easy to invent languages that many people cannot lear=
n at all. Logical languages (loglans) <http://www.loglan.org/what-is-loglan=
.html> have been invented as tools for unambiguously expressing some formal=
, logical statements, and it turns out that people have a tremendous diffic=
ulty learning them. What=92s more, these languages require the prior existe=
nce of a working natural language before they can be learned even a bit. Th=
ey have to be explained logically rather than learned by listening. The rea=
son seems to reflect the critical difference between a loglan and a natural=
 language. Loglans express formal concepts while natural languages pilot at=
tention. In a loglan the fundamental challenge is to keep everything unambi=
guous, and sometimes this procedure requires multiple embeddings that would=
 be impossible in natural speech because they disrupt attention. In natural=
 languages,
> ambiguity is less of an issue because the context helps keep matters clea=
r. The really important thing is for speakers to make it easy for a listene=
r to follow the thread of what=92s being said. Embeddings can only come at =
certain attentional breakpoints, and too many embeddings leave a listener c=
onfused. But, it is possible for some determined learners to become convers=
ational in a loglan. Presumably there are one or two freakish situations ri=
ght now in which an infant is picking up bits and pieces of a loglan along =
with some other language. The flexibility of human nature can never be forg=
otten or dismissed. There is a very wide variety of verbal expression possi=
ble: logical, metaphorical, joking, analytical, =85 I don=92t know if there=
 is an upper limit. But it begins with perception and directing attention, =
which in turn rests on a community"
>    Prove him wrong, Robin!  Prove him wrong!
>                  --gejyspa
>
> --
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