Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]:38821) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RPc8y-0003h4-19; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 07:39:00 -0800 Received: by pzk33 with SMTP id 33sf5274474pzk.16 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 07:38:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:x-pgp-key :x-pgp-keyid:x-cunselcu'a-valsi:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=ca3qBiu0RN1xoKX2EVsJyuYPvdiN60P7aVUIZAEAVhw=; b=bviqWJVN0/zenQ5x0uTPa/IC3H5/ktrtJKbXNDivNRjy2iIQ/MN/DU3Zoza1A34nCS kOSJGZovY6iSSgpEsomIL9jxsN8LgXLz9PRpJGm9Hz7JRxeem98eubAYzrM9a1d92XWE /Vv3qs+rakT9XD/j6r70X+PMhMloAmK2Rtrk4= Received: by 10.68.13.106 with SMTP id g10mr2398172pbc.0.1321198483152; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 07:34:43 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.75.232 with SMTP id f8ls15277009pbw.7.gmail; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 07:34:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.30.34 with SMTP id p2mr17922033pbh.4.1321198482562; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 07:34:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.30.34 with SMTP id p2mr17922031pbh.4.1321198482544; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 07:34:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdf.lonestar.org (mx.sdf.org. [192.94.73.19]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l5si8609756pbe.2.2011.11.13.07.34.42 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 13 Nov 2011 07:34:42 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of mbays@sdf.org designates 192.94.73.19 as permitted sender) client-ip=192.94.73.19; Received: from gonzales.homelinux.org (root@sverige.freeshell.org [192.94.73.4]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.5/8.14.3) with ESMTP id pADFYfUG004998 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 15:34:42 GMT Received: from martin by gonzales.homelinux.org with local (Exim 4.75) (envelope-from ) id 1RPc4v-0001Io-Lm for lojban@googlegroups.com; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 10:34:41 -0500 Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 10:34:41 -0500 From: Martin Bays To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Lions and levels and the like Message-ID: <20111113153441.GB3277@gonzales> References: <20111112173901.GC2702@gonzales> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="98e8jtXdkpgskNou" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-PGP-Key: http://mbays.freeshell.org/pubkey.asc X-PGP-KeyId: B5FB2CD6 X-cunselcu'a-valsi: stidi User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Original-Sender: mbays@sdf.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of mbays@sdf.org designates 192.94.73.19 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mbays@sdf.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --98e8jtXdkpgskNou Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable * Sunday, 2011-11-13 at 10:10 -0300 - Jorge Llamb=EDas : > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 2:39 PM, Martin Bays wrote: > > What I mean by this (i.e. by "really"): if B hears A say {su'o ctuca cu > > tavla ro le tadni}, and B wants to understand what A means to say about > > actual teachers and actual students, and if {ctuca} and {tadni} do not > > specify levels, then B has to guess which levels A intends them to refer > > to. If, for example, B guesses that A is talking about kinds of teacher > > and about actual students, all B can deduce about actual teachers and > > students is that every student was talked to by some teacher. >=20 > You have some hidden assumptions there, for example that there are > actual teachers of the kind that talks to every student. Could there not be, assuming the kind does talk to every student? I don't know the semantics of kinds talking to people; I was assuming they'd just be straightforwardly disjunctive. > And B can deduce more: that there is some kind of teacher such that > every student was talked to by some teacher of that kind. Right, except that the kind could (at least in theory) be the kind Teacher. Martin --98e8jtXdkpgskNou Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk6/45EACgkQULC7OLX7LNZoqACfSzoPMbdE5hDY+9O3IQMgjBvN EmsAoIKhtql7BBzWCFAoMsH/WbiCnYwK =mrb0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --98e8jtXdkpgskNou--