Received: from mail-vx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.220.189]:60853)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCL-Ey5qiChCploD2BBoE99pFdw@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1RPeiY-0004Ok-PO; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 10:23:51 -0800
Received: by vcbfo14 with SMTP id fo14sf3622198vcb.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 10:23:40 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
         :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type
         :content-transfer-encoding;
        bh=/QHvQwjqrAbDWWdiDFVzOH8i2lBBB0WfPOHqQL/87pU=;
        b=anc8lNs8pwlhdcP36LON4FjWGBwDqadIA5+7b6akVRHWKcqHERG7SwbNGNAHMT9ORS
         54U8LHOvd6Owm8EwDjEoMsUYJDhYTGuL5GvWM8eUQGX2+Pyu0COeeUUx2fE3xA29hfpo
         vLAmri7KIas1FodrKOShh2xezkW67fATCXRs0=
Received: by 10.52.173.110 with SMTP id bj14mr3107549vdc.3.1321208617390;
        Sun, 13 Nov 2011 10:23:37 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.220.215.71 with SMTP id hd7ls7484056vcb.5.gmail; Sun, 13 Nov
 2011 10:23:37 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.52.64.173 with SMTP id p13mr18473090vds.0.1321208616998;
        Sun, 13 Nov 2011 10:23:36 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.52.64.173 with SMTP id p13mr18473089vds.0.1321208616990;
        Sun, 13 Nov 2011 10:23:36 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-vx0-f182.google.com (mail-vx0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bu17si9039608vdc.0.2011.11.13.10.23.36
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Sun, 13 Nov 2011 10:23:36 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of craigbdaniel@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.182;
Received: by mail-vx0-f182.google.com with SMTP id fo14so6668943vcb.13
        for <lojban@googlegroups.com>; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 10:23:36 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.52.66.178 with SMTP id g18mr6325797vdt.32.1321208616895; Sun,
 13 Nov 2011 10:23:36 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.52.182.35 with HTTP; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 10:23:36 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <CAEimHHBpMnyq-PCy8Zy+c_otXMb8ArS33YAiCwpf96XHOSK82w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20111105115950.GJ8607@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>
	<CAEimHHD32DpyRAA+E5Gf10n4iqViwz6X9Tt8fFMmMg3P1FuHJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj26HzF4xj00kKDDuku7NCs7oJAnso9fC8gCN_M9UzwCJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<201111090819.17457.phma@phma.optus.nu>
	<20111109132326.GN19979@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>
	<CAP=UV6pjpKdPQwdFnbqwTRmRYo=hcAQpM_7os406QjccfuyJxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKOEKkQCRz4yuHhz_mK=JeOur-HvRULD2pMtO1iaTKEQM4jeCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2d-0Xi5p5ckxkHiRmA2Ad1rqZs=xF89NRPrKL5ZBrSMEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKOEKkRpf8CWixLNEg-QsV2Hjj10a77Enqp79chtoeVi0=688Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAP=UV6pf4N-fV=vOkK7WqSDxkDERiAF7stFgwTG0F=K6wo=vCA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKOEKkQCbdmbKqL95L9PT7WhvExSrDiAhCvAuB0XaJw0bYkGhQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAP=UV6pFadVN+HrAU9hGfapNPbBiBaNYSEmnK50mSSuQnsD0Hw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEimHHBpMnyq-PCy8Zy+c_otXMb8ArS33YAiCwpf96XHOSK82w@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 13:23:36 -0500
Message-ID: <CAP=UV6r=Rpk_5z4T13OJr2o=PXM9e-7SZ-mV6XAMW6JkdVS4aw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] baby words, but general relevance: dai-like cmavo
From: Craig Daniel <craigbdaniel@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: craigbdaniel@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of craigbdaniel@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.182 as permitted
 sender) smtp.mail=craigbdaniel@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.7
X-Spam_score_int: -6
X-Spam_bar: /

On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> I waffle on this one so much. =A0I kind of wish that "attitudinals" were =
not
> defined as "how the speaker feels" but more generically like "equivalent=
=A0to
> the grunts and such from other languages". =A0e.g. it would be nice (as I=
'm
> guessing Robin is making reference to) the sound one makes when they see =
a
> kid running and suddenly fall and skin their knee or some such. =A0In eng=
lish
> this sound is "ooooo" while making a "grimace" expression. =A0Expressing =
this
> is not a semantic statement with at truth value so for we jbopre, it feel=
s
> like it should be an attitudinal.
> So what should it be? =A0I don't feel pain. =A0I feel sympathy because I =
observe
> you feeling pain.

I basically agree, and I certainly agree that what you're looking for
in that example is ".oidai" (and/or ".uu,") but I think there's a
distinction to be drawn between me expressing sympathy/empathy with
pain (.oidai) and actually directly expressing pain felt by another
being (which expression inherently runs the risk of being wrong, and
needs a truth value).

 - mi'e .kreig.

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.