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Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 19:54:35 -0800
From: Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] baby words, but general relevance: dai-like cmavo
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Also, I've just seen that this thread descended into a clusterfuck
of "the CLL says X, the ma'oste says Y, usage says Z".  Yay.

I have therefore linked it at
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Attitudinal+Modifiers ,
for future use in my making of arbitrary decisions on this topic
which I will then impose by fiat.  :D

-Robin

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 07:42:11PM -0800, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> It turns out that the CLL is *ambiguous* as to whether {dai} means
> "I feel it with you" or "I note you feeling it".
>=20
> -_-
>=20
> From http://dag.github.com/cll/13/10/
>=20
>   You can of course make a bridi claim that so-and-so felt
>   such-and-such an emotion, but you can also make use of the
>   attitudinal system by adding the indicator =93dai=94, which attributes
>   the preceding attitudinal to someone else =97 exactly whom, must be
>   determined from context. You can also use =93dai=94 conversationally
>   when you empathize, or feel someone else=92s emotion as if it were
>   your own:
>=20
> So, um, *yeah*.
>=20
> I think I'ma go with your plan, since I think it's more used to mean
> "I feel it with you" than the other.
>=20
> -Robin
>=20
> On Tue, Nov 08, 2011 at 11:35:31AM -0600, Adam Lopresto wrote:
> > No answer for the {ko} form. But for the other, I have a very non-stand=
ard
> > solution that I think might just work: treat {dai} as a scale. (Glosses
> > below subject to all the standard rigamarole of "attitudinals aren't
> > propositions", etc; work with me here.)
> >=20
> > {.o'u dai [ja'ai]}: I see you're relaxed, and feel relaxed with you
> > {.o'u dai nai}: You're relaxed, but I'm not.
> > {.o'u dai cu'i}: You're relaxed. Nothing at all about how I feel is bei=
ng
> > expressed here.
> >=20
> > I don't think {dai} as a scale has any defined meaning, but this seems
> > consistent with the standard base form, while adding useful meanings fo=
r
> > the others.
> >=20
> > On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 6:59 AM, Robin Lee Powell <
> > rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> >=20
> > >
> > > OK, so there's {dai}.  {.ui dai} means "you are happy, and I am also
> > > happy along with you".
> > >
> > > What I routinely find myself wanting to say to the babies is things
> > > like {.o'u [you should be feeling this]}.  Something like a UI
> > > equivalent of {ko surla}, or {ko gleki}, or whatever.
> > >
> > > Obviously, I can just *say* {ko surla}, but I find myself, in the
> > > flow of Lojban, really *wanting* to use the UI cmavo for this
> > > purpose.
> > >
> > > Similarily, I also want {.oi [I see that you are feeling this; I'm
> > > not myself, but I observe it in you]}.  Which, again, {za'a do
> > > dunku}, but when I'm in the flow speaking Lojban, I want a UI for
> > > it.
> > >
> > > I don't know why I have these urges, but I thought I'd throw them
> > > out in case other people feel similarily and maybe think it's worth
> > > playing with a couple of experimental cmavo for it.  As usual, I
> > > probably won't be following the thread.
> > >
> > > -Robin
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
> > > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
> > > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
> > > is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
> > >
> > > --
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> > > "lojban" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
> > >
> > >
> >=20
> > --=20
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou=
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> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
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> > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lo=
jban?hl=3Den.
> >=20
>=20
> --=20
> http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
> Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
> is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
> is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
>=20
> --=20
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups=
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an?hl=3Den.
>=20
>=20

--=20
http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/

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