Received: from mail-bw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.214.61]:60641) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RQmJL-0006f0-Bj; Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:42:33 -0800 Received: by bkat2 with SMTP id t2sf994822bka.16 for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:42:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=jzCd+v5jHDjBwxDzOWUvgBn9vLT4YxuKh6vJk7t99tU=; b=c67wPiC6NHyyGvRfVhI6rktr+uRfV41hOKbxCTjvJDVyMLUlXvB8KukcjjGJGoWuE6 BgFw3+UXGEig04wltL6bzLhGCjWyJhzAe1XlQnu+xX89XE0TjP4pIBD0xAFokyk7dyV9 WQX/bHp4nvk7lIab4tT2zUo6fsZn8vQTruylM= Received: by 10.205.125.17 with SMTP id gq17mr3681895bkc.3.1321476132332; Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:42:12 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.200.144 with SMTP id ew16ls3235162bkb.2.gmail; Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:42:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.154.136 with SMTP id o8mr4835354bkw.2.1321476130729; Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:42:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.154.136 with SMTP id o8mr4835353bkw.2.1321476130707; Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:42:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-bw0-f42.google.com (mail-bw0-f42.google.com [209.85.214.42]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o14si4970760bkc.1.2011.11.16.12.42.10 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:42:10 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.42 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.42; Received: by mail-bw0-f42.google.com with SMTP id zt4so1155644bkb.15 for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:42:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.205.138.129 with SMTP id is1mr23089276bkc.120.1321476130532; Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:42:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.41.67 with HTTP; Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:42:10 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:42:10 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Metaphors (and why making them is a smart move) From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0ce0d99256ec8a04b1e0238a X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --000e0ce0d99256ec8a04b1e0238a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Escape Landsome wrote: > . > > Hello. > > In natlangs, people can carry metaphors. For instance, one will say > "his heart is filled with anger", as if "anger" was some liquid > substance and his heart a recipient. > > Of course, scientifically speaking, we know that to be wrong, but > nevertheless the metaphor speaks to us, and what is more, it is not > even dangerous to carry it, for the meaning is clear and context makes > it wholly unambiguous. > > [It can be hard that this latter is not true in the general case. I > personally think this "logicist" view is rather misleading.] > > I don't really know how things happen in Lojban but from what I know > of it, I guess there are no metaphors at all (correct me if I'm > mistaken). What I guess is likely to happen in a loglan is that you > will have *two* brodas : > > You are mistaken. In fact, metaphors can happen in many ways. If you want to express that something is to be taken metaphorically, you can mark it with a "pe'a" after it: mi culno pe'a lo ka cinmo. On the other hand, you don't have to mark it if it will be understood well enough as metaphorical. And many gismu specifically have metaphorical meanings (look for example in the definition of "stedu"). And tanru can also be metaphorical. (e.g. see "kosta degji" (coat sleeve) as mentioned in chapter 5, section 14 of the reference grammar) --gejyspa -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --000e0ce0d99256ec8a04b1e0238a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Escape Landsome= <escaaape@gmail= .com> wrote:
.

Hello.

In natlan= gs, people can carry metaphors. =A0 For instance, one will say
"his= heart is filled with anger", as if "anger" was some liquid<= br> substance and his heart a recipient.

Of course, scientifically speak= ing, we know that to be wrong, but
nevertheless the metaphor speaks to u= s, and what is more, it is not
even dangerous to carry it, for the meani= ng is clear and context makes
it wholly unambiguous.

[It can be hard that this latter is not true = in the general case. =A0I
personally think this "logicist" vie= w is rather misleading.]

I don't really know how things happen i= n Lojban but from what I know
of it, I guess there are no metaphors at all (correct me if I'm
mist= aken). =A0What I guess is likely to happen in a loglan is that you
will = have *two* brodas :

=A0
=A0 You are mistaken.=A0 In fact, metaphors can happen in many ways.= =A0 If you want to express that something is to be taken metaphorically, yo= u can mark it with a "pe'a"=A0after it: mi culno pe'a lo = ka cinmo.=A0 On the other hand, you don't have to mark it if it will be= understood well enough as metaphorical.=A0 And many gismu specifically hav= e metaphorical meanings (look for example in the definition of "stedu&= quot;).=A0 And tanru can also be metaphorical.=A0 (e.g. see "kosta deg= ji" (coat sleeve) as mentioned in chapter 5, section 14=A0of the refer= ence grammar)
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa

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