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Subject: Re: [lojban] Metaphors (and why making them is a smart move)
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But how far can you stretch the use of metaphors?
For example I can say tricu stedu for crown of tree, but is it valid to
make a lujvo out of it (ricystedu)?
And how universal are metaphors really? Which metaphors are more likely to
be common phrases, understood by most people in the world? And which
metaphors are unique or used only in particar cultures, and therefore takes
more effort to understand? The latter are probably not so suitable for use
in lujvo or common conversation.
Does anyone know if there has been any comparative studies on this subject?
/jongausib

Den onsdagen den 16:e november 2011 skrev Michael Turniansky<
mturniansky@gmail.com>:
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Escape Landsome <escaaape@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>> .
>>
>> Hello.
>>
>> In natlangs, people can carry metaphors.   For instance, one will say
>> "his heart is filled with anger", as if "anger" was some liquid
>> substance and his heart a recipient.
>>
>> Of course, scientifically speaking, we know that to be wrong, but
>> nevertheless the metaphor speaks to us, and what is more, it is not
>> even dangerous to carry it, for the meaning is clear and context makes
>> it wholly unambiguous.
>>
>> [It can be hard that this latter is not true in the general case.  I
>> personally think this "logicist" view is rather misleading.]
>>
>> I don't really know how things happen in Lojban but from what I know
>> of it, I guess there are no metaphors at all (correct me if I'm
>> mistaken).  What I guess is likely to happen in a loglan is that you
>> will have *two* brodas :
>>
>
>   You are mistaken.  In fact, metaphors can happen in many ways.  If you
want to express that something is to be taken metaphorically, you can mark
it with a "pe'a" after it: mi culno pe'a lo ka cinmo.  On the other hand,
you don't have to mark it if it will be understood well enough as
metaphorical.  And many gismu specifically have metaphorical meanings (look
for example in the definition of "stedu").  And tanru can also be
metaphorical.  (e.g. see "kosta degji" (coat sleeve) as mentioned in
chapter 5, section 14 of the reference grammar)
>
>             --gejyspa
>
> --
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<br>But how far can you stretch the use of metaphors?<br>For example I can =
say tricu stedu for crown of tree, but is it valid to make a lujvo out of i=
t (ricystedu)?<br>And how universal are metaphors really? Which metaphors a=
re more likely to be common phrases, understood by most people in the world=
? And which metaphors are unique or used only in particar cultures, and the=
refore takes more effort to understand? The latter are probably not so suit=
able for use in lujvo or common conversation.<br>
Does anyone know if there has been any comparative studies on this subject?=
<br>/jongausib<br><br>Den onsdagen den 16:e november 2011 skrev Michael Tur=
niansky&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mturniansky@gmail.com">mturniansky@gmail.com</=
a>&gt;:<br>
&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt; On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Escape Landsome &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:escaaape@gmail.com">escaaape@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&=
gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; .<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Hello.<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt=
; In natlangs, people can carry metaphors. =A0 For instance, one will say<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; &quot;his heart is filled with anger&quot;, as if &quot;anger&quot=
; was some liquid<br>&gt;&gt; substance and his heart a recipient.<br>&gt;&=
gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Of course, scientifically speaking, we know that to be wron=
g, but<br>
&gt;&gt; nevertheless the metaphor speaks to us, and what is more, it is no=
t<br>&gt;&gt; even dangerous to carry it, for the meaning is clear and cont=
ext makes<br>&gt;&gt; it wholly unambiguous.<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; [It ca=
n be hard that this latter is not true in the general case. =A0I<br>
&gt;&gt; personally think this &quot;logicist&quot; view is rather misleadi=
ng.]<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; I don&#39;t really know how things happen in L=
ojban but from what I know<br>&gt;&gt; of it, I guess there are no metaphor=
s at all (correct me if I&#39;m<br>
&gt;&gt; mistaken). =A0What I guess is likely to happen in a loglan is that=
 you<br>&gt;&gt; will have *two* brodas :<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt; =A0<br>&gt; =
=A0 You are mistaken.=A0 In fact, metaphors can happen in many ways.=A0 If =
you want to express that something is to be taken metaphorically, you can m=
ark it with a &quot;pe&#39;a&quot;=A0after it: mi culno pe&#39;a lo ka cinm=
o.=A0 On the other hand, you don&#39;t have to mark it if it will be unders=
tood well enough as metaphorical.=A0 And many gismu specifically have metap=
horical meanings (look for example in the definition of &quot;stedu&quot;).=
=A0 And tanru can also be metaphorical.=A0 (e.g. see &quot;kosta degji&quot=
; (coat sleeve) as mentioned in chapter 5, section 14=A0of the reference gr=
ammar)<br>
&gt; =A0<br>&gt; =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa<br>&gt;<br>&gt=
; --<br>&gt; You received this message because you are subscribed to the Go=
ogle Groups &quot;lojban&quot; group.<br>&gt; To post to this group, send e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com">lojban@googlegroups.com<=
/a>.<br>
&gt; To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban=
%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<b=
r>&gt; For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.googl=
e.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den">http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den</=
a>.<br>
&gt;

<p></p>

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