=A0 So, the answer to your question is "it depen= ds whom you ask"=A0 But, of course there are no metaphors that are uni= versal, but that's not importnat for their use, because all you need fo= r use is that your intended audience understands them.=A0 Just like the use= of "family words" in any natural language (words/phrases that ar= e inside references that only family members understand.=A0 For a quick exa= mple, in our house, the phrase "to drop the cards" means to fart,= because of a tale that need not be gone into here.=A0 But no one outside o= ur family would understand it.=A0 But that does mean, where I speaking to o= ther family memebers in lojban, I could certainly use karda falcru (or even= kardyfalcru) without even needing to mark it as "pe'a"=A0 Do= es that mean that all metaphors must be eschewed simply because some people= will not understand it?=A0 Not at all.=A0 And we even have our own=A0jbokl= u metaphors (although not that many at this point) which are called cimjvo.= You need look no further =A0thatn the word cimjvo itself, or nikyge'u.=

=A0

=A0=A0=A0 But others, such as Robin or And, will argue that lujvo shou= ld never be metaphorical.

=A0

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa

=A0

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Sebastian Fr=F6= jd <so.cool.o= gi@gmail.com> wrote:

But how far can you stretch = the use of metaphors?
For example I can say tricu stedu for crown of tre= e, but is it valid to make a lujvo out of it (ricystedu)?
And how universal are metaphors really? Which metaphors are more likely to = be common phrases, understood by most people in the world? And which metaph= ors are unique or used only in particar cultures, and therefore takes more = effort to understand? The latter are probably not so suitable for use in lu= jvo or common conversation.
Does anyone know if there has been any comparative studies on this subject?=
/jongausib

Den onsdagen den 16:e november 2011 skrev Michael Tur= niansky<mturn= iansky@gmail.com>:=20

>
>
> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 2:24 PM,= Escape Landsome <escaaape@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> .
>> >> Hello.
>>
>> In natlangs, people can carry metap= hors. =A0 For instance, one will say
>> "his heart is filled = with anger", as if "anger" was some liquid
>> subst= ance and his heart a recipient.
>>
>> Of course, scientifically speaking, we know that to be= wrong, but
>> nevertheless the metaphor speaks to us, and what is= more, it is not
>> even dangerous to carry it, for the meaning is= clear and context makes
>> it wholly unambiguous.
>>
>> [It can be hard tha= t this latter is not true in the general case. =A0I
>> personally = think this "logicist" view is rather misleading.]
>>
>> I don't really know how things happen in Lojban but from what = I know
>> of it, I guess there are no metaphors at all (correct me= if I'm
>> mistaken). =A0What I guess is likely to happen in a= loglan is that you
>> will have *two* brodas :
>>
> =A0
> =A0 You a= re mistaken.=A0 In fact, metaphors can happen in many ways.=A0 If you want = to express that something is to be taken metaphorically, you can mark it wi= th a "pe'a"=A0after it: mi culno pe'a lo ka cinmo.=A0 On = the other hand, you don't have to mark it if it will be understood well= enough as metaphorical.=A0 And many gismu specifically have metaphorical m= eanings (look for example in the definition of "stedu").=A0 And t= anru can also be metaphorical.=A0 (e.g. see "kosta degji" (coat s= leeve) as mentioned in chapter 5, section 14=A0of the reference grammar) > =A0
> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa
>

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