Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]:36979) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RR2pM-0005Qq-NI; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 06:20:38 -0800 Received: by qyk29 with SMTP id 29sf6466606qyk.16 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 06:20:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=sKi5KLaT88ierG/Daa6khM9sF22rRl6kkJoUHWGfFa4=; b=KEiI9YlFMeIUe5NV5v++rWx9THx44orLDpAFXHyYEtZB5dfhFymqFHc9H1LKUniI/z 9KtA86HXoe7LGcTbi6u+/amtzmk3rHcBggZ0JmOA4knk+cFd09KWuySEWoiyOY0uK60C j/eVOCUBf3V0Z9cugotHBhv8PnUhJE4bD68T8= Received: by 10.224.218.133 with SMTP id hq5mr6557244qab.14.1321539623631; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 06:20:23 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.184.71 with SMTP id cj7ls383690vcb.1.canary; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 06:20:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.52.38.198 with SMTP id i6mr40866383vdk.2.1321539621898; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 06:20:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.52.38.198 with SMTP id i6mr40866380vdk.2.1321539621889; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 06:20:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vx0-f181.google.com (mail-vx0-f181.google.com [209.85.220.181]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b8si15282745vdu.2.2011.11.17.06.20.21 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 17 Nov 2011 06:20:21 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of craigbdaniel@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.181 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.181; Received: by mail-vx0-f181.google.com with SMTP id fk14so2094303vcb.26 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 06:20:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.65.37 with SMTP id u5mr57083099vds.45.1321539621730; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 06:20:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.52.182.35 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 06:20:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <11134151.93.1321473096305.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqcm23> <201111170113.10114.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:20:21 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] An alternative day-of-week list From: Craig Daniel To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: craigbdaniel@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of craigbdaniel@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.181 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=craigbdaniel@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 8:38 AM, tijlan wrote: > What about those non-7-day weeks? > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Week#.22Weeks.22_in_other_calendars > > There can be no consistent correspondence for the starting day of the > week unless we ignore certain calendars with different cycles. > > Why would Lojbanistan choose the 7-day week? Because it's an > international standard, adopted by the ISO? Isn't that adoption on > hegemonic rather than scientific grounds? Is there any real neutral > basis for the days of the week of any traditional calendar as there > are for the length of the Earth's day or year? Yes, actually. At least, maybe. The seven-day week arose independently in Latin and Germanic-speaking cultures, in the latter case at a time when a lunar calendar was in use which used direct observation of the moon to mark the beginning of the month (when the crescent moon is first visible after sunset), with some holidays on the full moon (including the first day of Yule). As the moon looks full for several days (I am told, though I don't know why it should be so, that this is especially true at higher latitudes such as those of Northern Europe), picking a day as the actual "full moon" date isn't a trivial observation to make the way the start of a lunation is - but you can get an almost right answer that is guaranteed to not be visibly wrong if you assume that it's two weeks after the day you observe the first crescent. That this heuristic was in actual use is not proven, but it seems likely; this would imply that the week is half a fortnight, rather than the fortnight being originally a term for two weeks. This certainly isn't culturally neutral - it's only useful in pre-modern lunar calendars! - but it is, at least, a basis in physical phenomena. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.