Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]:62803) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RR377-0005mC-4f; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 06:39:03 -0800 Received: by qyk29 with SMTP id 29sf6536140qyk.16 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 06:38:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=wMPZI72AlkpmpnYgRK+matP7EDIWN9Ikr64IiuAZM7I=; b=TPcWIqdbbPc0JxF8c+DvpD8OoRq3WLwTpy0QApYWlpL1eZDoHNYVnixHdVIq8VQRUy HU12A0cBr/xHs5Slut3Uf5Wo4Jjyr7NAhPHzH5uKNnrUW4veYbUjmioIgj9IgkVy3Z1Q rOnmXdTv+V5UwAXesjG311bMZGsxJ2/4YHw6U= Received: by 10.224.52.81 with SMTP id h17mr6833449qag.0.1321540724607; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 06:38:44 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.29.29 with SMTP id c29ls2184342ybc.4.gmail; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 06:38:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.236.173.68 with SMTP id u44mr9857339yhl.6.1321540723248; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 06:38:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.150.243.2 with SMTP id q2msybh; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 02:18:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.236.179.10 with SMTP id g10mr1593266yhm.8.1321525089274; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 02:18:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by h21g2000yqg.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 02:18:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 02:18:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20111113162350.GC3277@gonzales> User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0,gzip(gfe) Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] Re: Lojban and Truth-Conditional Semantics From: la klaku To: lojban X-Original-Sender: jakobnybonissen@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / In my use of everyday Lojban, there are no issues about truth conditions when I speak of sentences like {la djan prami la meris}. Nor do I think the problem with "domains of discourse" (in the sense of what descriptive sumti actually refer to) really is a problem in ordinary speech. Not that I am against Mike's suggestion, i encourage it, but I'd argue that Lojban's major problems with truth conditions doesn't lie in simple bridi composed of only (SUMTI SELBRI SUMTI) The problem is small modifying words. Is the truth condition of {mi po'o broda} the same as {mi le no drata cu broda}? Does {a'o ko'a broda} have the same truth conditions as {ko'a broda}? Why not? How does {da'i} *actually* work? And so I could go on. The worst offender here is probably the implicit CAhA, since an implicit {ka'e} can wreck all efforts of trying to establish reasonalbe truth conditions. I suggest it be defined how these small words interact with the "normal" truth conditions of the bridi without these modifiers. This is important in order to interpret ordinary speech. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.