Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]:36650)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCJep1eqcEBCw0pr2BBoEgUjVwA@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1RRTXF-0001VO-Eh; Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:51:43 -0800
Received: by vbbez10 with SMTP id ez10sf872448vbb.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:51:30 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:date:from:user-agent
         :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type
         :content-transfer-encoding;
        bh=EeIpX/G+yxDLUbxDFCTUB54XEhIcC72RE7oHaL5PcOE=;
        b=BqG4MgfP2gf/U9KmWzgXjGNpJgXI4Z8/Uvb8ndiAcoUUn+tBqOwrbkv907/giJ4xFH
         Mn9yjt3xpeTnvh8At9CP0Loj1S4Jp2W1PERp9AsPHJpoCkrVX9Y1cAc+hq8hA6OKQslw
         RNiSqUfviBOAYhIsmEMShrK3zuDkjfOgGLg3w=
Received: by 10.52.75.9 with SMTP id y9mr1289129vdv.14.1321642288426;
        Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:51:28 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.150.29.29 with SMTP id c29ls3567844ybc.4.gmail; Fri, 18 Nov
 2011 10:51:27 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.236.175.225 with SMTP id z61mr6673890yhl.9.1321642287727;
        Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:51:27 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.236.175.225 with SMTP id z61mr6673889yhl.9.1321642287714;
        Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:51:27 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-yx0-f170.google.com (mail-yx0-f170.google.com [209.85.213.170])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r38si711137ano.2.2011.11.18.10.51.27
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:51:27 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of celestialcognition@gmail.com designates 209.85.213.170 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.213.170;
Received: by yenl2 with SMTP id l2so5385362yen.1
        for <lojban@googlegroups.com>; Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:51:27 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.236.114.195 with SMTP id c43mr7464366yhh.12.1321642287597;
        Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:51:27 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [10.0.1.103] (76-76-236-67.lisco.net. [76.76.236.67])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j25sm1980240yhm.12.2011.11.18.10.51.26
        (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:51:26 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <4EC6A92C.2080008@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 12:51:24 -0600
From: vitci'i <celestialcognition@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.23) Gecko/20110921 Thunderbird/3.1.15
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] gender
References: <f880ddca-7f8d-4072-a4a7-4a11579143d1@gk10g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>	<1320681459.44222.YahooMailRC@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<CAKv2tT7tTukzyKKCV7cK+MeCN3+zKFu-vD=PQRY_H4EABF9FGA@mail.gmail.com>	<1320687357.85830.YahooMailRC@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4EB81C9F.4090300@gmail.com>	<1320689797.1887.4.camel@fagricipni-desktop>	<4EB823B4.4080700@gmail.com>	<4EB82487.1080608@gmail.com>	<CAP=UV6riy58_6=WYP=Lvnk26_k6CA-35TVNkDEGMf6Z0cehruQ@mail.gmail.com>	<4EB82819.2010603@gmail.com>	<35370FB6-7C1C-4B21-80EF-56F2213B58DE@yahoo.com>	<4EB845AE.3080907@gmail.com>	<1320722048.69601.YahooMailRC@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<CAKv2tT4oYOhiXaFQnU0v0Ki-EpDkQ1htQQhJtjhdyqo4XXkEQQ@mail.gmail.com>	<7641736.693.1320815625242.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqpp12>	<CAKv2tT6SgrYYpWK5J7gO0gcssv_k-XLA7qJ5=A0dpG0Xs6R1Jg@mail.gmail.com>	<4EC69B3C.70800@gmail.com> <CAPAJj9KuxyFy80o0X0E8gjauxf1SELdcefiAvAQ8ArRoRrZAQw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAPAJj9KuxyFy80o0X0E8gjauxf1SELdcefiAvAQ8ArRoRrZAQw@mail.gmail.com>
X-Original-Sender: celestialcognition@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of celestialcognition@gmail.com designates 209.85.213.170 as permitted
 sender) smtp.mail=celestialcognition@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.7
X-Spam_score_int: -6
X-Spam_bar: /

On 11/18/2011 12:35 PM, tijlan wrote:
> On 18 November 2011 17:51, vitci'i <celestialcognition@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 11/18/2011 06:35 AM, Sebastian Fr=F6jd wrote:
>>> So what do you think about this definition?
>>>
>>> fetyjavnakykai: c1=3Dn1=3Df1 has/is characterized by evidencing male or=
(/and)
>>> female traits/aspects c2=3Dn2=3Df2 (ka) of species n2=3Df2; x1 has the =
sex/gender
>>> of being male or(/and) female of species x3.
>>>
>>> Notes: x2 may be biological and/or sociological defined; x2 may be a
>>> general definition (male/female) or based on particular
>>> characteristics/traits (biological (xadni), state of external genitalia
>>> (pinji or plibu), internal genitalia (ganti), sexual/social norms (te
>>> cinse/jikca) etc).
>>
>> There are more than two genders.
>=20
> {fetyjavnak-} (female, male, or both female & male) would allow more
> than two genders. But I would agree that three mightn't still be
> enough.

It probably wouldn't. If we want to cover biological sex, then we need
to be able to distinguish (e.g.) a hermaphroditic creature such as a
slug from a member of a species that reproduces asexually. If we want to
cover sociological gender, it's even more complicated than that.

>> How about if we just let {cinse} mean gender, and move sexuality to {gle=
dji}?
>=20
> Yes, we could generalize {cinse} up to a point where it would cover
> the spectrum mentioned by J.E.C. above and would provide a more
> productive rafsi:
>=20
> gincinse - genetic gender
> jikcinse - social gender
> klucinse - cultural gender
> etc.

I'm actually talking about making {cinse} less general -- it already
means gender; I just want to make it not also mean sexuality.

I also really want to have the explicit x3 and x4 places of {cinse} when
talking about gender, so that I can say things like {cinse fi so'i da}
or {cinse fo ma}.

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.