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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 10:22:57 -0500
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Lions and levels and the like
From: maikxlx <maikxlx@gmail.com>
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On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 7:05 AM, Bob LeChevalier, President and
Founder - LLG <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
> maikxlx wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 8:14 PM, Bob LeChevalier, President and
>> Founder - LLG <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
>>
>>> If I make a ka'e capability claim involving all the places of klama, th=
en
>>> the claim applies just as much to the place gone to as to the go-er.  I=
f
>>> I
>>> can go to a place (from somewhere else by some route), then that place
>>> can
>>> be gone to by me, and likewise, if I cannot, then it cannot.
>>>
>>
>> I have to disagree; I think that {kakne} capability manifests itself
>> differently among each of the bridi places.  Specifically the capacity
>> of a goer to be a goer is expressible as something like {lo ka ka'e
>> klama}, while the capacity to be a place gone-to is {lo ka ka'e se
>> klama} -- assuming that {ka'e} carries from {kakne}, which is
>> something that xorxes disputes.
>
> But of course the capability of lo klama to be such is the capability to
> klama x2 x3 x4 x5, and its capability is dependent on the values of x2, x=
3,
> x4, and x5, and correspondingly, the claim seems evident that this is
> strongly associated with the capability of that x2 to se klama x1 x3 x4 x=
5,
> and with the capability of x3 to te klama x2 x1 x4 x5, etc.
>
I agree that there is a family of co-dependent capabilities.  The rub
in the context of the larger discussion is the exact relationship of
this family to {cumki}.  Supposing for a moment that it could be
purified of obvious malrarna, I would still say that {kakne} makes a
stronger claim than {cumki} does, because the former imputes to an
individual in the actual world an inherent property, whereas the
latter merely claims that the overall proposition is possible, or to
put it equivalently, that it is true in some possible state of
affairs.  What we want out of {ka'e} is only the latter, and if it
can't guarantee that, then something else is needed IMHO.


On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 7:11 AM, Bob LeChevalier, President and
Founder - LLG <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
> I think Plan B was =A0whimsical sketch on purpose, intending to make fun =
of
> the perfectionists who were perpetually proposing something new and
> different to reform the language.
>
I don't know.  It was written in a pretty deadpan tone.

> My insight, such as it was, is that for a language to be a LANGUAGE, the
> significance of a stable and active user base is all important. =A0A
> theoretical construct that no one (or only the inventor) uses might be mo=
re
> logical, but it would not really be a language. =A0I did not win friends =
in
> the conlang community with this attitude %^)
> --
Well, even as a "perfectionist" that might disagree with you, I'd say
you must have done something right, because the fact of the matter is
that Lojban is the only game in town.

> Bob LeChevalier =A0 =A0lojbab@lojban.org =A0 =A0www.lojban.org
> President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc.

mu'o mi'e .maik.

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