Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]:37500) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RV876-0003Ah-Pb; Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:47:51 -0800 Received: by vbbfs19 with SMTP id fs19sf6006733vbb.16 for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:47:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:references :user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=K3sKVvIC5NpxuP8+RFi4IiJZAjS/lX20SNDegQBKwO4=; b=EEfsjRd5D34xAQzBBMh8ctXph+ENkVP22drb8Wwg1v/lltLfte6ii1CikIcV3BhQQ8 9dyQ8EW0CUP+BWXqjoNpaRhQK8shStF0HbfBg6XIWu+NM5jkd9b/fynI66pRnqH6MDrl fyLcS0pma0rkSG18FZM8cS+6zKSK76fCH6Yew= Received: by 10.52.88.193 with SMTP id bi1mr15926354vdb.8.1322513255931; Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:47:35 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.81.139 with SMTP id x11ls1095349vck.5.gmail; Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:47:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.52.88.130 with SMTP id bg2mr34112275vdb.6.1322513254939; Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:47:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.52.88.130 with SMTP id bg2mr34112272vdb.6.1322513254930; Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:47:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vx0-f191.google.com (mail-vx0-f191.google.com [209.85.220.191]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ij1si607440vdb.3.2011.11.28.12.47.34 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:47:34 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jakobnybonissen@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.191 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.191; Received: by mail-vx0-f191.google.com with SMTP id fo13so1945616vcb.28 for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:47:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.117.49 with SMTP id kb17mr151491vdb.6.1322513254833; Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:47:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:47:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:47:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20111127114636.GS15498@nvg.org> References: <20111127114636.GS15498@nvg.org> User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0,gzip(gfe) Message-ID: <54180726-b96f-43f6-8d54-629356db9e00@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: ru'a From: la klaku To: lojban X-Original-Sender: jakobnybonissen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jakobnybonissen@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.191 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jakobnybonissen@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / I think it's vaguely distinguished from the other discursives because of semantics: "ia" is an emotion-word and tells nothing about how the knowlegde is obtained. "la'a", "ju'o" and "li'a" tells us how certain it is, also without telling the method of knowing (though za'a probably implies li'a, ru'e implies la'a and such). The difference between "li'a" and "ju'o" is, IMO, that "li'a" implies that it's obvious or self-evident. "pe'i" acknowlegdes subjective truth (or that the subjective truth verdict is relevant) "da'i" states that it's not necessarily true "ju'a" is elliptical. "ti'e" is hearsay "za'a" is direct observing "je'u" states that it's actually true (unlike da'i, which states whether the actual truth is irrelevant or not) "se'o" and "ka'u" are much alike, but "ka'u" admits the knowlegde is gained from externally. "ru'a" is used to postulate a hypothesis or non-direct observation, I think, while specifically saying that the speaker lacks enough evidence to conclude it finally. mi'e la klaku -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.