Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]:50768)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCNTPpI2KGxDH_t72BBoEgsO_1g@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1RWAq1-000753-6d; Thu, 01 Dec 2011 09:54:30 -0800
Received: by qabg40 with SMTP id g40sf808044qab.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Thu, 01 Dec 2011 09:54:18 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references
         :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type
         :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition;
        bh=YZWq1surrpedwPxp1PjFxcDvTiaRWoYwXSH5HhixaX4=;
        b=SjdJf7hg2zhsnCrhc7uH7OD22wzKM/dub5cbGtfH3v/fn8lBKvTvJkgKm/V4gnSqWe
         9X6IBuf/8WmGHWd+9WugCXRLqZwT1wB7KYVhIr/2Rwiqa7n5Zm4sFkHxzZPNkOX2GfNU
         qaOqOKx8Yjx1h0msQnLuV5fzg8b+gJTz2s6dM=
Received: by 10.224.175.78 with SMTP id w14mr5833qaz.6.1322762055930;
        Thu, 01 Dec 2011 09:54:15 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.224.188.6 with SMTP id cy6ls76445qab.6.gmail; Thu, 01 Dec 2011
 09:54:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.224.188.203 with SMTP id db11mr28371qab.4.1322762055295;
        Thu, 01 Dec 2011 09:54:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.224.188.203 with SMTP id db11mr28370qab.4.1322762055285;
        Thu, 01 Dec 2011 09:54:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: from chausie (cpe-075-176-118-168.carolina.res.rr.com. [75.176.118.168])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id y8si2753843qcq.0.2011.12.01.09.54.13;
        Thu, 01 Dec 2011 09:54:13 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.176.118.168 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.176.118.168;
Received: from ip6-localhost (ip6-localhost [IPv6:::1])
	by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id E977421728
	for <lojban@googlegroups.com>; Thu,  1 Dec 2011 12:54:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Rant (baby related): dasni, taxfu, and all their  friends.
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 12:54:08 -0500
User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405)
References: <20111130173647.GO8581@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <20111201160359.GE22210@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <CAEimHHCNUVpjUjMZvOp=f7eXDR_+Wmngcav7ZiWQrsnizW3uRw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAEimHHCNUVpjUjMZvOp=f7eXDR_+Wmngcav7ZiWQrsnizW3uRw@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <201112011254.10419.phma@phma.optus.nu>
X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com:
 75.176.118.168 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for
 domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.7
X-Spam_score_int: -6
X-Spam_bar: /

On Thursday 01 December 2011 11:24:23 Luke Bergen wrote:
> I don't know if I agree with that.  I think a {broda zi'o} isn't
> necessarily a {broda} that cannot have an x2 but rather a {broda} that in
> this instance does not have an x2.  i.e. there's no reason that {ko'a sim=
lu
> lo ka barda zi'o} COULDN'T have an observer, only that in this instance i=
t
> does not.  Or... maybe that's the chief difference between noda and zi'o?
>  I'll be honest, my grasp of what zi'o is/does in a technical sense is
> fairly weak.

"ko'a simlu lo ka barda zi'o" doesn't say that there isn't an observer. The=
re=20
is an observer. What there may or may not be is a bigness dimension. "ko'a=
=20
barda noda" is true if ko'a is small in all dimensions, or is big but has n=
o=20
dimensions, but is false if ko'a is big in length, width, or height. "ko'a=
=20
barda zi'o" is true if ko'a is big but has no dimensions, or is big in=20
length, width, or height, but is false if ko'a is small. For "nothing", if=
=20
not meaning to negate the verb, I'd say "lo nonydza" or "lo nomei", e.g.=20
(losing the confusion, of course):
=97do lampagre ma mo'ire'o le klaji?
=97noda
=97ju'osai .i le vi citno ninmu ji'a cu viska .iseni'ibo lo nonydza cu cadz=
u=20
snomau do

Pierre
--=20
gau do li'i co'e kei do

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.