Received: from mail-bw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.214.61]:64909)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCnvv_2BBoEMiYOsw@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1RYPLu-0007VU-N5; Wed, 07 Dec 2011 13:48:49 -0800
Received: by bkcje16 with SMTP id je16sf642672bkc.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Wed, 07 Dec 2011 13:48:26 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
         :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type
         :content-transfer-encoding;
        bh=1jkf98W47I+cAN8q6dyzHNRBFfk3hMtMZLdhpIFU9dI=;
        b=B96CGdsWVKnkf4Kbeg7cLnM/ivAKzVaVCxN6of7eH90r8zOaYPgYJPfeDunjBj/aYf
         cmeMWP/vU5ozVTX/ZvF0E4croNPbMxLkRsKR2XGuCwdJQ6PMzls1JbOc4cgVjuG4XiER
         Q10S3D0OThtf2PjDCvOiTucmaJDrmk1ouxTxw=
Received: by 10.204.155.142 with SMTP id s14mr75876bkw.35.1323294503828;
        Wed, 07 Dec 2011 13:48:23 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.204.200.144 with SMTP id ew16ls696717bkb.2.gmail; Wed, 07 Dec
 2011 13:48:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.205.122.77 with SMTP id gf13mr39813bkc.1.1323294501644;
        Wed, 07 Dec 2011 13:48:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.205.122.77 with SMTP id gf13mr39812bkc.1.1323294501629;
        Wed, 07 Dec 2011 13:48:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f52.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f52.google.com [209.85.215.52])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l10si196244bkv.0.2011.12.07.13.48.21
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Wed, 07 Dec 2011 13:48:21 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.52 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.52;
Received: by lagm6 with SMTP id m6so759712lag.39
        for <lojban@googlegroups.com>; Wed, 07 Dec 2011 13:48:21 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.152.105.211 with SMTP id go19mr180894lab.31.1323294501212;
 Wed, 07 Dec 2011 13:48:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.152.19.198 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Dec 2011 13:48:20 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <1323271781.23349.YahooMailRC@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20111201021703.GL2886@gonzales>
	<CAO7tK2fH0ACodKJe7Hhwi8t_ivjiANg7d5cqEukudq6fRTZJXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20111203175028.GC12482@gonzales>
	<CAO7tK2eDAX-HZMubt9k5coxY=AjnxbQj67t8-2TF-sTcsnrtug@mail.gmail.com>
	<20111203204015.GA11790@gonzales>
	<CAO7tK2cMTBoMY2DUjpj00CORvUQOFo2PVoGvNOYu2Yv9ti3vEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20111203233303.GB11790@gonzales>
	<CAO7tK2f4A_E4SOXgR4W4hdE9jOL6Hq+pymtkLVjG0ehmTpHRPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20111204014942.GC11790@gonzales>
	<CAO7tK2d92MaRx2tO5rfzvT97dzxfBrZ9Q8XL_kgoH7VCF+i_NA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20111204172803.GA3091@gonzales>
	<CAO7tK2ctfXMV6chvWKTLo+Rjbdgj0MdJdwQM62qN+meuT_8Ttg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1323097700.59133.YahooMailRC@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<CAO7tK2efsWdpGLppXjghLf=Kc1UrAzJSxKu7_PNCS_=e-VedVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1323271781.23349.YahooMailRC@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 18:48:20 -0300
Message-ID: <CAO7tK2f_rGg29zMmG0o-eVjjCZiETyxyM2Ki1KvGiP-vrg3szg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] semantic parser - tersmu-0.1rc1
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.52 as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Spam_score: 0.0
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /

On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 12:29 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wro=
te:
> To sum up one part of this discussion, if there is a variable (with or wi=
thout a
> quantifier) in a compound predication, =A0it can only come from an underl=
ying
> compound sentence of the form Qx(Fx X Gx) or something equivalent to that=
, which
> turns out to be just AxFx & AxGx) and ExFx v ExGx. =A0Other quantifiers c=
annot be
> collapsed at all. =A0Now, as to how situation is represented in Lojban, t=
he only
> problem case is a plain {da} with a disjunctive predication. =A0But since=
 this is
> equivalent to the (relatively) prenex form, the rule to use that prenex f=
or all
> cases holds.

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. Consider for example:

(1)  ro nanla .e nai ro nixli pu citka su'o plise
 "Every boy and not every girl ate some apple."

My reading of that is:

(2)  ge ro da poi nanla su'o de poi plise zo'u da de citka gi na ku ro
da poi nixli su'o de poi plise zo'u da de citka
 "For every x who is a boy there is some y that is an apple such that
x ate y and it is not the case that for every x who is a girl there is
some y that is an apple such that x ate y."

You seem to be saying that it's either:

(3) su'o da poi plise zo'u ge ro de poi nanla zo'u de da citka gi na
ku ro de poi nixli zo'u de da citka
 "There is some x that is an apple such that for every y who is a boy,
y ate x and such that it is not the case that for every y who is a
girl y ate x."

or:

(4) ro da poi nanla ku'o ro de poi nixli ku'o su'o di poi plise zo'u
ge da di citka gi na ku zo'u de di citka
 "For every x who is a boy and every y who is a girl there is some z
that is an apple such that x ate z and it is not the case that y ate
z"

or perhaps:

(5) ro da poi nanla ku'o su'o de poi plise zo'u ge da de citka gi na
ku su'o di poi nixli zo'u di de citka
 "For every x who is a boy there is some y that is an apple such that
x ate y and it is not the case that for every z who is a girl z ate y"

You seem to be saying that "su'o plise" for some reason must have
scope over ".e", but I'm not sure where you would put "ro nanla" and
"ro nixli" with respect to ".e" (and thus with respect to "su'o
plise").

I hope we all agree that in "ro nanla cu citka su'o plise" it is "ro
nanla" that has scope over "su'o plise", so readings (3) and (5),
which make "su'o plise" have scope over at least one of the preceding
"ro", seem quite wrong to me. As for reading (4), with "ro nixli"
having scope over the negation, it's also weird.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.