Received: from mail-bw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.214.61]:39274)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhDlt4z3BBoE_yxIkw@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1RZIXo-00074L-9I; Sat, 10 Dec 2011 00:44:40 -0800
Received: by bkat2 with SMTP id t2sf7059569bka.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Sat, 10 Dec 2011 00:44:24 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
         :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=tIHind5iioN6xYV4zL/mNJdWoC0MBEDKiqoH0HFo+Cw=;
        b=WBWpKD7clZfIAwtyOy907uWxCHUAH7iWvpSivg7NA5genfOl933AU++FZKaia48oki
         3mAZBS9uDEu4XfA87aBja3xnTMX8305qKA73tJ4mcBBiFpw8lwPdoKbGr2IvnLpWBv4J
         kozfd+JXOHgucqjOIMWP0nrpoEDuJE7QbFjpw=
Received: by 10.204.130.219 with SMTP id u27mr1740706bks.20.1323506661822;
        Sat, 10 Dec 2011 00:44:21 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.204.56.81 with SMTP id x17ls10620367bkg.1.gmail; Sat, 10 Dec
 2011 00:44:20 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.204.152.89 with SMTP id f25mr433772bkw.0.1323506660701;
        Sat, 10 Dec 2011 00:44:20 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.204.152.89 with SMTP id f25mr433771bkw.0.1323506660680;
        Sat, 10 Dec 2011 00:44:20 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f41.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f41.google.com [209.85.215.41])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t6si3894876bkz.0.2011.12.10.00.44.20
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Sat, 10 Dec 2011 00:44:20 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.41 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.41;
Received: by lahi5 with SMTP id i5so1700284lah.0
        for <lojban@googlegroups.com>; Sat, 10 Dec 2011 00:44:20 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.152.132.231 with SMTP id ox7mr6900126lab.22.1323506660220;
 Sat, 10 Dec 2011 00:44:20 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.152.114.230 with HTTP; Sat, 10 Dec 2011 00:44:20 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <CALMa68o5i3O56oY8CN_pCKZAWhVvcpqZs1aiqXeBQ8pSk+Ca_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALMa68o5i3O56oY8CN_pCKZAWhVvcpqZs1aiqXeBQ8pSk+Ca_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 01:44:20 -0700
Message-ID: <CAMKwHj18Ukh-uNsF++tACsZniNDm4B+ycSdg2xOpJZ1vBtT2MQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Update on gadri Proposal
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.41 as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d042c6c49571e9a04b3b8e8df
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Spam_score: 0.0
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /

--f46d042c6c49571e9a04b3b8e8df
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

So.... fix them? It's a wiki, pretty much anyone can make changes.

(At least, I assume the gadri proposal is located on the Lojban wiki,
seeing as you didn't link to it and I'm not interested enough to go
searching.)

On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 1:14 AM, Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis <
felipeg.assis@gmail.com> wrote:

> Now that the formal definition of {PA broda} has been updated in the
> gadri Proposal, there are other parts of it that need to be adjusted.
> The first paragraph, defining {lo}, still says
> "
> When an outer quantifier is used without an inner quantifier, lo can be
> omitted.
> "
>
> I think this should be replaced by an exemplified explanation of the
> differences
> between {PA broda} and {PA lo broda}.
>
> Maybe some of the examples should be reviewed as well.
> I find the parenthesised {lo} in the following particularly misleading.
> "
> o'i mu (lo) xagji sofybakni cu zvati le purdi
> Caution! There are five hungry Soviet cows in the garden.
> "
>
> mu'o
> mi'e .asiz.
>
> 2011/12/9 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
> > On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 10:20 PM, Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Another side-issue (which I maybe shouldn't mention but will anyway) i=
s
> >> what {PA plise} abbreviates. Is it short for {PA da poi plise} where
> >> {da} isn't already bound - which saves at least two syllables and save=
s
> >> us having to bind a new da? Or is it short for {PA lo plise} - which
> >> just saves one syllable? The usage here, lojbanic history and the
> >> demands of efficiency all point towards the former, but the gadri
> >> proposal currently states the latter.
> >>
> >> If that change is to be reverted, I think it would be best to do it
> >> sooner rather than later.
> >
> > Done.
> >
> > mu'o mi'e xorxes
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "lojban" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
> >
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>
>


--=20
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.


--f46d042c6c49571e9a04b3b8e8df
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

So.... fix them? It&#39;s a wiki, pretty much anyone can make changes.<br><=
br>(At least, I assume the gadri proposal is located on the Lojban wiki, se=
eing as you didn&#39;t link to it and I&#39;m not interested enough to go s=
earching.)<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 1:14 AM, Felipe Gon=
=E7alves Assis <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:felipeg.assis@gmail.=
com">felipeg.assis@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex;">
Now that the formal definition of {PA broda} has been updated in the<br>
gadri Proposal, there are other parts of it that need to be adjusted.<br>
The first paragraph, defining {lo}, still says<br>
&quot;<br>
When an outer quantifier is used without an inner quantifier, lo can be omi=
tted.<br>
&quot;<br>
<br>
I think this should be replaced by an exemplified explanation of the differ=
ences<br>
between {PA broda} and {PA lo broda}.<br>
<br>
Maybe some of the examples should be reviewed as well.<br>
I find the parenthesised {lo} in the following particularly misleading.<br>
&quot;<br>
o&#39;i mu (lo) xagji sofybakni cu zvati le purdi<br>
Caution! There are five hungry Soviet cows in the garden.<br>
&quot;<br>
<br>
mu&#39;o<br>
mi&#39;e .asiz.<br>
<br>
2011/12/9 Jorge Llamb=EDas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com">jjll=
ambias@gmail.com</a>&gt;:<br>
&gt; On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 10:20 PM, Martin Bays &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mba=
ys@sdf.org">mbays@sdf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Another side-issue (which I maybe shouldn&#39;t mention but will a=
nyway) is<br>
&gt;&gt; what {PA plise} abbreviates. Is it short for {PA da poi plise} whe=
re<br>
&gt;&gt; {da} isn&#39;t already bound - which saves at least two syllables =
and saves<br>
&gt;&gt; us having to bind a new da? Or is it short for {PA lo plise} - whi=
ch<br>
&gt;&gt; just saves one syllable? The usage here, lojbanic history and the<=
br>
&gt;&gt; demands of efficiency all point towards the former, but the gadri<=
br>
&gt;&gt; proposal currently states the latter.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; If that change is to be reverted, I think it would be best to do i=
t<br>
&gt;&gt; sooner rather than later.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Done.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro=
ups &quot;lojban&quot; group.<br>
&gt; To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegr=
oups.com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
&gt; To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban=
%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<b=
r>
&gt; For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.=
com/group/lojban?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/=
lojban?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
&gt;<br>
<font color=3D"#888888"><br>
--<br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.=
com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban%2Bun=
subscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/lojba=
n?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
<br>
</font></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;=
e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. m=
i patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<=
br>
<br>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.<br />



--f46d042c6c49571e9a04b3b8e8df--