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Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 19:22:05 -0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban] state of {binxo}
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On 10 December 2011 10:55, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The metaphysics is getting a little thick here. =A0Lojban doesn't say muc=
h sub
> rosa about what exists or does not; it (like most languages) is just abou=
t what
> predicates apply. =A0No thing comes into existence or passes out of it in=
 {binxo}
> and related predicates; rather one set of predicates cease to apply and a=
 new
> set come to apply. That is, there is a change of state not of substance.
> Otherwise there would be no change, merely a substitution =A0(read a good=
 old
> Thomist on the Eucharist).
>

Not having read the Thomist texts yet, I am trying to keep the metaphysics =
to a
minimum. I can perfectly well talk about tonight's moon as something that h=
as
a certain span of coordinates in space-time. There is a (vague) limited int=
erval
of time associated with it. When I say "begin or cease to exist", I am
not talking
about a higher reality, just about trespassing the time-boundaries of
this object
of discourse during the time of an event.

My point about {binxo} is precisely that: if it is object-object, it
can't be just about
some predicates ceasing to apply and a new set coming, because it doesn't m=
ake
reference to these predicates. As tijlan pointed out, the
uncontentious alternative
to that is {co'a} and friends.

For that reason, I looked for an interpretation of {binxo} that is
coherent with that.
My current understanding is that the time span of binxo1 or binxo2 is tresp=
assed
during the nu binxo.

So, you can talk about an object that is a seed at a moment and then become=
s a
tree, and say
  {ti tsiju gi'ebabo co'a tricu}.
You can even choose to describe it as {lo tsiju} and {lo tricu}, but if you=
 say
  {lo tsiju cu binxo ti},
or
  {ti binxo lo tricu}
you can't be referring to the same object as {lo tsiju} and {ti} in
the first sentence,
or as {ti} and {lo tricu} in the second one. All sentences may be used
to describe
the same situation, but they involve fundamentally different choices of obj=
ects,
and have different semantic implications.

I am not questioning the validity of the objects, I am just trying to
clarify the
semantic implications, and confront them with current usage.

mu'o
mi'e .asiz.

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