Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]:39402)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCML0xpmUARCWlZj3BBoEqvhN0g@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1Ra6XR-0006Qy-BF; Mon, 12 Dec 2011 06:07:31 -0800
Received: by qcsr14 with SMTP id r14sf24428qcs.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Mon, 12 Dec 2011 06:07:22 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
         :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=rsbxrJuzi4l6qQ3SBgEHbQ/uQ3h3aNH/ptzLyz9lEW0=;
        b=A1MHP8eYVNQrxTdW2dIeg3vhbPc4O+A/IO18W/wCmzhC+DUgZHbFS0TfrQ82qLBVW4
         guNEZHtDxRvrRSkNjqw75w7aOV9FffNA9YCBnZXDLVT7AEsj0IZyZcW+HGAr2j08mbn9
         9HoujBeMqF+PBUsyony5o54I4C30WyhMofTj4=
Received: by 10.224.187.198 with SMTP id cx6mr3169855qab.9.1323698838850;
        Mon, 12 Dec 2011 06:07:18 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.224.116.194 with SMTP id n2ls16802397qaq.3.gmail; Mon, 12 Dec
 2011 06:07:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.224.183.69 with SMTP id cf5mr4451202qab.0.1323698838320;
        Mon, 12 Dec 2011 06:07:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.224.183.69 with SMTP id cf5mr4451201qab.0.1323698838302;
        Mon, 12 Dec 2011 06:07:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-qw0-f45.google.com (mail-qw0-f45.google.com [209.85.216.45])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id y8si16731586qcq.0.2011.12.12.06.07.18
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Mon, 12 Dec 2011 06:07:18 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.45 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.45;
Received: by mail-qw0-f45.google.com with SMTP id c10so793087qad.18
        for <lojban@googlegroups.com>; Mon, 12 Dec 2011 06:07:18 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.236.155.2 with SMTP id i2mr25349809yhk.115.1323698838003; Mon,
 12 Dec 2011 06:07:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.101.41.7 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Dec 2011 06:07:17 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <CA+gZtgKGCF_D6GWooXwXOtJX-YiGC=-q-TjDCXpwBizny36Eyw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALMa68qP1rans_GfLQHb7nwthw9w5zJwEfrFr-t+uRP-FXNcMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPAJj9Kk6zgouKjRyGGDybPcM49MhLa0Rf5waNML0WPFSymtZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALMa68oGMRUwXbsSWDAyZP3GfDb4dJw7P8b1f5KhF0JEwcPBHg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPAJj9JeKNdn_i0O84g9KuPxqQqfuNGyZ4Fypf7Bo3t+RLEqeA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALMa68p0LrYiHcT3=eSVKMUGLYk8-857pFAGn7+bNoedSWG4MA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPAJj9+-wgh2ggvNpPCHFv1Q78fB5xwyRN94KZ_G-0trf7LTOQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALMa68qPo96nWFvTOC5VFqANoH9WnY-0zyx1FTP9CwHdFK48kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPAJj9JFrUrTdp6-T8s0HKhpiNdFY7ELx-KGDEeNqWD6fq9MJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+gZtgKGCF_D6GWooXwXOtJX-YiGC=-q-TjDCXpwBizny36Eyw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 09:07:17 -0500
Message-ID: <CA+gZtgL59KFG529wx6dW2+sj+u6Y4=RQBN=HGmTgHJhh6cNMQA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] state of {binxo}
From: Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.45 as permitted
 sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf30363adb07632d04b3e5a7b3
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.7
X-Spam_score_int: -6
X-Spam_bar: /

--20cf30363adb07632d04b3e5a7b3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Eh actually it's even lower than ka'e statements; it's ka'e statements
involving broad classes of things. My point stands, though.

mu'o mi'e latros

On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 9:05 AM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote=
:

>
>
> On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 7:27 AM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 2011/12/8 Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis <felipeg.assis@gmail.com>:
>> > Not trying to amend {binxo}, just to clarify its implications.
>>
>> The Lojban grammar treats properties differently from non-abstract
>> objects. We cannot conventionally say {lo bisli} and imply that it's
>> {lo ka bisli}. If we decided that binxo2 be "an acquired property" to
>> be attributed to binxo1, that would be a new definition with a
>> mandatory NU, and currently valid expressions like {lo djacu cu binxo
>> lo bisli} would no longer be grammatical.
>
>
> Er, no; the grammar has no idea about what types of things different sumt=
i
> are. You can put properties and concrete sumti in the same places in any
> selbri grammatically. What you're talking about is a sort of low level
> semantics that is beneath most other semantics, namely what sorts of thin=
gs
> can do what, that is to say {ka'e} statements.
>
> mu'o mi'e latros
>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group=
s
>> "lojban" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>>
>>
>

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.


--20cf30363adb07632d04b3e5a7b3
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Eh actually it&#39;s even lower than ka&#39;e statements; it&#39;s ka&#39;e=
 statements involving broad classes of things. My point stands, though.<br>=
<br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e latros<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Dec =
12, 2011 at 9:05 AM, Ian Johnson <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bl=
indbravado@gmail.com">blindbravado@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div clas=
s=3D"im">On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 7:27 AM, tijlan <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:jbotijlan@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jbotijlan@gmail.com</a>=
&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>2011/12/8 Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:felipeg.assis=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">felipeg.assis@gmail.com</a>&gt;:<br>
</div><div>&gt; Not trying to amend {binxo}, just to clarify its implicatio=
ns.<br>
<br>
</div>The Lojban grammar treats properties differently from non-abstract<br=
>
objects. We cannot conventionally say {lo bisli} and imply that it&#39;s<br=
>
{lo ka bisli}. If we decided that binxo2 be &quot;an acquired property&quot=
; to<br>
be attributed to binxo1, that would be a new definition with a<br>
mandatory NU, and currently valid expressions like {lo djacu cu binxo<br>
lo bisli} would no longer be grammatical.</blockquote></div><div>=A0<br>Er,=
 no; the grammar has no idea about what types of things different sumti are=
. You can put properties and concrete sumti in the same places in any selbr=
i grammatically. What you&#39;re talking about is a sort of low level seman=
tics that is beneath most other semantics, namely what sorts of things can =
do what, that is to say {ka&#39;e} statements.<br>

</div><div><br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e latros <br></div><div class=3D"im"><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1p=
x solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
<br>
--<br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.=
com" target=3D"_blank">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban%2Bun=
subscribe@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com</a>.<br>
For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/lojba=
n?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
<br>
</div></blockquote></div></div><br>
</blockquote></div><br>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.<br />



--20cf30363adb07632d04b3e5a7b3--