Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]:55973) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Rb798-0005D1-3Y; Thu, 15 Dec 2011 00:58:40 -0800 Received: by yhgg71 with SMTP id g71sf3055792yhg.16 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2011 00:58:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ATFTTbK0voM4GjPd8gp1SJXE1T8Nldps94u62N88rUo=; b=F4m8pBmI1H71nKeRrpr6M1qBRHED6z8VqY1W4a3IZd+KOC62923g5m/4oh4pcWHAYR pN5ysmGYRXS58nc30kv84VlA7S5GNk/fbHMs7aKwNMoWIW2CP2LEAzcWmmUhln73S+jL zTJp2BbqD5I7CEP/fIZOUYcaKebkhz+wq8sZ0= Received: by 10.236.189.10 with SMTP id b10mr766579yhn.3.1323939503667; Thu, 15 Dec 2011 00:58:23 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.181.19 with SMTP id d19ls7723113ybf.0.gmail; Thu, 15 Dec 2011 00:58:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.101.3.9 with SMTP id f9mr1066902ani.26.1323939503022; Thu, 15 Dec 2011 00:58:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.101.3.9 with SMTP id f9mr1066900ani.26.1323939503004; Thu, 15 Dec 2011 00:58:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-gx0-f180.google.com (mail-gx0-f180.google.com [209.85.161.180]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t24si1357993ybt.2.2011.12.15.00.58.22 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 15 Dec 2011 00:58:22 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.180; Received: by ggnq1 with SMTP id q1so1510636ggn.25 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2011 00:58:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.227.8 with SMTP id rw8mr1094638obc.42.1323939502864; Thu, 15 Dec 2011 00:58:22 -0800 (PST) Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.182.54.80 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Dec 2011 00:58:22 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 08:58:22 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Compass directions From: tijlan To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: paskios@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.180 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=paskios@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / 2011/12/14 Jorge Llamb=EDas : > On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 7:35 AM, tijlan wrote: >> >> Can "snanu" be defined in terms of other than "berti"? > > How about "the direction to your right when facing in the direction in > which the sun rises (in case you don't want to use "stuna" either). There are two kinds of south: geological south and magnetic south. The geological one represents the point where the planet's axis of rotation meets its surface, also called the south pole. The magnetic one represents the force field that extends from the planet's inner core. Magnetic south & north can wander off from geological ones. The difference creates an angle called magnetic declination, which has been increasing recently as the Earth's magnetic field is shifting, causing troubles for airports. Today's magnetic south was north 10,000+ years ago. During a geomagnetic reversal, there can be multiple souths, looking something like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/NASA_54559main_compariso= n1_strip.gif Sunrise has to do with the axis of rotation, so your suggestion would work for the geological one, but the other kind of south is independent of that axis. Every planet in our solar system has a south pole, but at a different angle. While the Earth is tilted by about 23.5 degree, Uranus is by nearly 98 degree -- one pole facing the sun throughout a day --, resulting in very different conditions for sunrise/sunset (and seasons). mu'o --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.