Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]:33298) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RbU5o-00083Y-2z; Fri, 16 Dec 2011 01:28:49 -0800 Received: by dajx4 with SMTP id x4sf2811899daj.16 for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2011 01:28:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:reply-to:to:message-id :in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=ZWE5kWHHSfgCHr+WYqRNjFRHpebeogw1PizK5vhL6Vc=; b=a6TjvvgkAjTyf/Y73pVOAk+14c7/emG4e2DhBveyieKC8smt071MgU1yVhBU+W6Fr9 hf1YW2bzVonmglYeOfAubgZkpRET9IhYJDkF+69B9tquLqsB4JF03vTyIHNE8dppWTOe tZaLaDwP6f/f28Z/eeIfERKpfCzNuGiqM4Luo= Received: by 10.68.75.135 with SMTP id c7mr2032241pbw.6.1324027647489; Fri, 16 Dec 2011 01:27:27 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.14.101 with SMTP id o5ls13767069pbc.4.gmail; Fri, 16 Dec 2011 01:27:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.191.41 with SMTP id gv9mr7449908pbc.5.1324027646377; Fri, 16 Dec 2011 01:27:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.191.41 with SMTP id gv9mr7449907pbc.5.1324027646366; Fri, 16 Dec 2011 01:27:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pw0-f60.google.com (mail-pw0-f60.google.com [209.85.160.60]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j5si9616842pbi.0.2011.12.16.01.27.26 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 16 Dec 2011 01:27:26 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of fotonoakvokampo@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.60 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.60; Received: by pbz3 with SMTP id 3so2542467pbz.25 for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2011 01:27:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.73.196 with SMTP id n4mr2033235pbv.11.1324027624150; Fri, 16 Dec 2011 01:27:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 01:27:03 -0800 (PST) From: guskant Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-ID: <2591056.130.1324027623252.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prez5> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [lojban] Compass directions MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: fotonoakvokampo@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of fotonoakvokampo@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.60 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=fotonoakvokampo@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_129_18225798.1324027623251" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_129_18225798.1324027623251 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 coi 2011/12/15 tijlan : > There are two kinds of south: geological south and magnetic south. The > geological one represents the point where the planet's axis of > rotation meets its surface, also called the south pole. The axis of rotation also shifts depending on kinetic conditions. The terrestrial (map) poles are almost fixed to the Earth, but they may shift with regard to horizontal tectonic motions: http://www.iers.org/nn_10968/IERS/EN/DataProducts/ITRS/itrs.html?__nnn=true There are also celestial poles. There are therefore at least four kinds of south: celestial south, south of a map, "south" (or rather a negative pole) of rotation, south of magnetic field. 1. Celestial south According to the International Astronomical Union, http://www.iau.org/static/resolutions/IAU2000_French.pdf the celestial poles are defined depending on the Earth's revolution around the sun (Nos. B1.7 + B1.3 for the Celestial Intermediate Pole). 2. South of a map The terrestrial poles are defined depending on the Celestial Intermediate Pole (No. B1.8 for the International Terrestrial Reference System). 3. Pole of rotation A positive pole ("north") of rotation is defined with so-called right-hand grip rule. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Manoderecha.svg "South", or rather a negative pole of rotation is the opposite side. This definition is applied to asteroids and comets: http://www2.keck.hawaii.edu/inst/people/conrad/research/pub/WGCCRE2009-preprint.pdf 4. South of magnetic field South of magnetic field is rather complicated. A magnetic field is a vector field. The south pole of a magnet is the point to which line integrals of magnetic field point toward; the north pole of a magnet is the point from which line integrals of magnetic field point away. The South Pole of the Earth is the north pole of a magnet that attracts the south pole of another magnet. A magnet may have more than two poles. Some celestial bodies form very complicated magnetic fields. For example, the Sun forms a rotating magnetic field: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Heliospheric-current-sheet.gif The poles of 1, 2, 3 are defined as two ends of an axis, but the poles of 4 are not necessarily on an axis. In other words, north and south of 1, 2, 3 can be defined dependent on each other, or dependent on the definition of the axis; on the other hand, north(s) and south(s) of 4 should be defined independently. mi'e guskant mu'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/jOf1A8O-l0MJ. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. 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coi

2011/12/15 tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com= >:
> There are two kinds of south: geological south and mag= netic south. The
> geological one represents the point where t= he planet's axis of
> rotation meets its surface, also called = the south pole. 

The axis of rotation also sh= ifts depending on kinetic conditions.

The terrestr= ial (map) poles are almost fixed to the Earth, but they may shift with rega= rd to horizontal tectonic motions:
http://www.iers.org/nn_10968/I= ERS/EN/DataProducts/ITRS/itrs.html?__nnn=3Dtrue

Th= ere are also celestial poles.

There are therefore = at least four kinds of south: celestial south, south of a map, "south" (or = rather a negative pole) of rotation, south of magnetic field.
1. Celestial south
According to the International Ast= ronomical Union, 
http://www.iau.org/static/resolutions/IAU2= 000_French.pdf
the celestial poles are defined depending on the E= arth's revolution around the sun (Nos. B1.7 + B1.3 for the Celestial Interm= ediate Pole). 

2. South of a map
Th= e terrestrial poles are defined depending on the Celestial Intermediate Pol= e (No. B1.8 for the International Terrestrial Reference System).
=
3. Pole of rotation 
A positive pole ("north"= ) of rotation is defined with so-called right-hand grip rule. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Manoderecha.svg
"South", or = rather a negative pole of rotation is the opposite side.
This def= inition is applied to asteroids and comets:
http://www2.keck.hawa= ii.edu/inst/people/conrad/research/pub/WGCCRE2009-preprint.pdf
4. South of magnetic field
South of magnetic field i= s rather complicated. 
A magnetic field is a vector field.&n= bsp;
The south pole of a magnet is the point to which line integr= als of magnetic field point toward; the north pole of a magnet is the point= from which line integrals of magnetic field point away.
The Sout= h Pole of the Earth is the north pole of a magnet that attracts the south p= ole of another magnet. 
A magnet may have more than two pole= s.
Some celestial bodies form very complicated magnetic fields. F= or example, the Sun forms a rotating magnetic field: http://en.wikipedia.or= g/wiki/File:Heliospheric-current-sheet.gif


The poles of 1, 2, 3 are defined as two ends of an axis, but the po= les of 4 are not necessarily on an axis. In other words, north and south of= 1, 2, 3 can be defined dependent on each other, or dependent on the defini= tion of the axis; on the other hand, north(s) and south(s) of 4 should be d= efined independently.

mi'e guskant mu'o
=

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=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
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