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References: <20111216193101.GG22027@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <4EEBA63B.4050403@gmail.com> <20111216201841.GL22027@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>
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Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 15:19:17 -0800 (PST)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Mini-rant: mutce and traji must die.
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The usual idea in all this is to strip away all the oblique places that turn up 
in many cases (under condition, against standard, ...) and make them modals 
(based on gismu where they are central, to be sure), which allows us to drop 
them freely when they aren't needed and add them where they are )but aren't 
currently supplied).  Of course, figuring out what to shift over to mainly modal 
use is hard to do (the last two -- at least -- places of {klama} are edge cases, 
for example, subspecies and breeds for plants and animals are another.)



----- Original Message ----
From: Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, December 16, 2011 2:18:41 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Mini-rant: mutce and traji must die.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 02:12:43PM -0600, vitci'i wrote:
> On 12/16/2011 01:31 PM, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> > These places must die!
> 
> I'm kind of curious to see how far this can be taken. What would
> happen if, even in gismu, we forbade any place that can be
> replaced by a modal?

Can those places be replaced by a modal?  Which one?

I have, fwiw, considered that posibility in my head as well.  I
think that's too much of some-other-language-that-isn't-Lojban.

> Consider {cusku}.
> 
> x1 (agent) expresses/says x2 (sedu'u/text/lu'e concept) for
> audience x3 via expressive medium x4.
> 
> cusku1 is covered by {gau}, and cusku3 is covered by {ri'i}.
> cusku4 is covered by {xebe'i}. Though I'm stretching a bit, cusku2
> could be covered by {fi'o jufra}, leaving us with a zero-place
> gismu.

*snrk*

> I am vaguely imagining a language centered around modals rather
> than predicates, with selbri being created implicitly and nonce by
> the lists of their places. I'm not sure that this is different
> from all gismu having exactly one place.

Yeah, as I say, I've pondered that as well as a thought experiment,
but it's a different language.  Probably a much more verbose one.

-Robin

-- 
http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/

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