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Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 15:20:17 -0800 (PST)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Mini-rant: mutce and traji must die.
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Wish you'd been around in the decision days.



----- Original Message ----
From: Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, December 16, 2011 5:14:41 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Mini-rant: mutce and traji must die.

See, I *like* {x1 is bluer than x2}.  *That* is a good use of place
structure; it gives you immediate access to extra meaning you might
actually want with no extra syllables.

-Robin

On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 03:08:38PM -0800, John E Clifford wrote:
> Back in the day, most basic adjectives were inherently comparative: {blanu} was 
>
> officially "x1 is bluer than x2" (with maybe a few more places -- this is a 
> Loglan word here, btw).  This always raised the question, when you wanted to 
>use 
>
> the merely attributive sense, "What is it bluer than when it is simply blue" 
>and 
>
> the answer always was (though no one ever seemed to like) "the 
> standard/average/typical/.... one of what ever x1 is relevantly at the moment", 
>
> roughly "blue for a ...".  I was usually elided in the "you know what I mean" 
> way, though the opponents always treated it as a "something" elision. (Using 
> basic comparatives makes a couple of moves in semantics a lot easier, which is 

> why it was used.  I miss it)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com>
> To: lojban@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Fri, December 16, 2011 2:36:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [lojban] Mini-rant: mutce and traji must die.
> 
> One of the things I really like about lojban (in the abstract, not necessarily 

> in practice) is that selbri have places which make explicit certain things 
>which 
>
> are completely implicit in other languages; one example: {rajycla} has a "by 
> standard" place (inherited from {clani}), which makes it clear that the 
> "standard of tallness" matters in any discussion of height, and requires a 
> different selbri ({rajycla be zi'o}) to ignore it.
> 
> It seems to me that spoken lojban will (almost) never use more than three 
> places, common written lojban will behave similarly, and technical or pedantic 

> lojban will have some words (depending on context) which use more places.
> 
> {.ua ro di'u na'e se ganzu}
> 
> 
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> 
>
> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 02:12:43PM -0600, vitci'i wrote:
> >> On 12/16/2011 01:31 PM, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> >> > These places must die!
> >>
> >> I'm kind of curious to see how far this can be taken. What would
> >> happen if, even in gismu, we forbade any place that can be
> >> replaced by a modal?
> >
> >Can those places be replaced by a modal?  Which one?
> >
> >I have, fwiw, considered that posibility in my head as well.  I
> >think that's too much of some-other-language-that-isn't-Lojban.
> >
> >
> >> Consider {cusku}.
> >>
> >> x1 (agent) expresses/says x2 (sedu'u/text/lu'e concept) for
> >> audience x3 via expressive medium x4.
> >>
> >> cusku1 is covered by {gau}, and cusku3 is covered by {ri'i}.
> >> cusku4 is covered by {xebe'i}. Though I'm stretching a bit, cusku2
> >> could be covered by {fi'o jufra}, leaving us with a zero-place
> >> gismu.
> >
> >*snrk*
> >
> >
> >> I am vaguely imagining a language centered around modals rather
> >> than predicates, with selbri being created implicitly and nonce by
> >> the lists of their places. I'm not sure that this is different
> >> from all gismu having exactly one place.
> >
> >Yeah, as I say, I've pondered that as well as a thought experiment,
> >but it's a different language.  Probably a much more verbose one.
> >
> >
> >-Robin
> >
> >--
> >http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
> >Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
> >is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
> >is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
> >
> >
> >--
> >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> >"lojban" group.
> >To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> >lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> >For more options, visit this group at 
> >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> mu'o mi'e .arpis.
> 
> 
> -- 
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-- 
http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/

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