On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at= 4:20 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:

Wish you'd been around in the decision d= ays.

----- Original Message ----
From: Robin Lee Powell <r= lpowell@digitalkingdom.org>

To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, December 16, 2011 5:14:41 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Mini-rant: mutce and traji must die.

See, I *like* {x1 is bluer than x2}. =A0*That* is a good use of place
structure; it gives you immediate access to extra meaning you might
actually want with no extra syllables.

-Robin

On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 03:08:38PM -0800, John E Clifford wrote:
> Back in the day, most basic adjectives were inherently comparative: {b= lanu} was
>
> officially "x1 is bluer than x2" (with maybe a few more plac= es -- this is a
> Loglan word here, btw). =A0This always raised the question, when you w= anted to
>use
>
> the merely attributive sense, "What is it bluer than when it is s= imply blue"
>and
>
> the answer always was (though no one ever seemed to like) "the > standard/average/typical/.... one of what ever x1 is relevantly at the= moment",
>
> roughly "blue for a ...". =A0I was usually elided in the &qu= ot;you know what I mean"
> way, though the opponents always treated it as a "something"= elision. (Using
> basic comparatives makes a couple of moves in semantics a lot easier, = which is

> why it was used. =A0I miss it)
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: .arpis. <rpg= lover64+jbobau@gmail.com>
> To: lojban@googlegroups.com=
> Sent: Fri, December 16, 2011 2:36:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [lojban] Mini-rant: mutce and traji must die.
>
> One of the things I really like about lojban (in the abstract, not nec= essarily

> in practice) is that selbri have places which make explicit certain th= ings
>which
>
> are completely implicit in other languages; one example: {rajycla} has= a "by
> standard" place (inherited from {clani}), which makes it clear th= at the
> "standard of tallness" matters in any discussion of height, = and requires a
> different selbri ({rajycla be zi'o}) to ignore it.
>
> It seems to me that spoken lojban will (almost) never use more than th= ree
> places, common written lojban will behave similarly, and technical or = pedantic

> lojban will have some words (depending on context) which use more plac= es.
>
> {.ua ro di'u na'e se ganzu}
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
>
> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 02:12:43PM -0600, vitci'i wrote:
> >> On 12/16/2011 01:31 PM, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> >> > These places must die!
> >>
> >> I'm kind of curious to see how far this can be taken. Wha= t would
> >> happen if, even in gismu, we forbade any place that can be > >> replaced by a modal?
> >
> >Can those places be replaced by a modal? =A0Which one?
> >
> >I have, fwiw, considered that posibility in my head as well. =A0I<= br> > >think that's too much of some-other-language-that-isn't-Lo= jban.
> >
> >
> >> Consider {cusku}.
> >>
> >> x1 (agent) expresses/says x2 (sedu'u/text/lu'e concep= t) for
> >> audience x3 via expressive medium x4.
> >>
> >> cusku1 is covered by {gau}, and cusku3 is covered by {ri'= i}.
> >> cusku4 is covered by {xebe'i}. Though I'm stretching = a bit, cusku2
> >> could be covered by {fi'o jufra}, leaving us with a zero-= place
> >> gismu.
> >
> >*snrk*
> >
> >
> >> I am vaguely imagining a language centered around modals rath= er
> >> than predicates, with selbri being created implicitly and non= ce by
> >> the lists of their places. I'm not sure that this is diff= erent
> >> from all gismu having exactly one place.
> >
> >Yeah, as I say, I've pondered that as well as a thought experi= ment,
> >but it's a different language. =A0Probably a much more verbose= one.
> >
> >
> >-Robin
> >
> >--
> >http://singinst= .org/ : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
> >Lojban (http:= //www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
> >is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "th= is sentence is false"
> >is "na nei". =A0 My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/r= lp/
> >
> >
> >--
> >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google= Groups
> >"lojban" group.
> >To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >lojban+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
> >For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .arpis.
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups
> "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+unsubs= cribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups
>"lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>lojban+unsubsc= ribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
>http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>

--
http://singinst.org/= : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.loj= ban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this senten= ce is false"
is "na nei". =A0 My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
lojban+unsubscribe= @googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.