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Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 16:14:22 -0800
From: Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Mini-rant: mutce and traji must die.
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 Content preview:  when I get some LaTeX help, yes. -Robin On Fri, Dec 16, 2011
    at 04:50:47PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote: > Well, unless I'm mistaken, these
    are the *new* decision days, and Robin is > Decision Man. > > On Fri, Dec
    16, 2011 at 4:20 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>wrote: > > > Wish
    you'd been around in the decision days. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message
    ---- > > From: Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> > > To: lojban@googlegroups.com
    > > Sent: Fri, December 16, 2011 5:14:41 PM > > Subject: Re: [lojban] Mini-rant:
    mutce and traji must die. > > > > See, I *like* {x1 is bluer than x2}. *That*
    is a good use of place > > structure; it gives you immediate access to extra
    meaning you might > > actually want with no extra syllables. > > > > -Robin
    > > > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 03:08:38PM -0800, John E Clifford wrote:
   > > > Back in the day, most basic adjectives were inherently comparative:
   > > {blanu} was > > > > > > officially "x1 is bluer than x2" (with maybe a
    few more places -- this > > is a > > > Loglan word here, btw). This always
    raised the question, when you > > wanted to > > >use > > > > > > the merely
    attributive sense, "What is it bluer than when it is simply > > blue" > >
    >and > > > > > > the answer always was (though no one ever seemed to like)
    "the > > > standard/average/typical/.... one of what ever x1 is relevantly
    at the > > moment", > > > > > > roughly "blue for a ...". I was usually elided
    in the "you know what I > > mean" > > > way, though the opponents always
   treated it as a "something" elision. > > (Using > > > basic comparatives makes
    a couple of moves in semantics a lot easier, > > which is > > > > > why it
    was used. I miss it) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com>
    > > > To: lojban@googlegroups.com > > > Sent: Fri, December 16, 2011 2:36:13
    PM > > > Subject: Re: [lojban] Mini-rant: mutce and traji must die. > > >
    > > > One of the things I really like about lojban (in the abstract, not
   > > necessarily > > > > > in practice) is that [...] 
 
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when I get some LaTeX help, yes.

-Robin

On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 04:50:47PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> Well, unless I'm mistaken, these are the *new* decision days, and Robin is
> Decision Man.
> 
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 4:20 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>wrote:
> 
> > Wish you'd been around in the decision days.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
> > To: lojban@googlegroups.com
> > Sent: Fri, December 16, 2011 5:14:41 PM
> > Subject: Re: [lojban] Mini-rant: mutce and traji must die.
> >
> > See, I *like* {x1 is bluer than x2}.  *That* is a good use of place
> > structure; it gives you immediate access to extra meaning you might
> > actually want with no extra syllables.
> >
> > -Robin
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 03:08:38PM -0800, John E Clifford wrote:
> > > Back in the day, most basic adjectives were inherently comparative:
> > {blanu} was
> > >
> > > officially "x1 is bluer than x2" (with maybe a few more places -- this
> > is a
> > > Loglan word here, btw).  This always raised the question, when you
> > wanted to
> > >use
> > >
> > > the merely attributive sense, "What is it bluer than when it is simply
> > blue"
> > >and
> > >
> > > the answer always was (though no one ever seemed to like) "the
> > > standard/average/typical/.... one of what ever x1 is relevantly at the
> > moment",
> > >
> > > roughly "blue for a ...".  I was usually elided in the "you know what I
> > mean"
> > > way, though the opponents always treated it as a "something" elision.
> > (Using
> > > basic comparatives makes a couple of moves in semantics a lot easier,
> > which is
> >
> > > why it was used.  I miss it)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com>
> > > To: lojban@googlegroups.com
> > > Sent: Fri, December 16, 2011 2:36:13 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [lojban] Mini-rant: mutce and traji must die.
> > >
> > > One of the things I really like about lojban (in the abstract, not
> > necessarily
> >
> > > in practice) is that selbri have places which make explicit certain
> > things
> > >which
> > >
> > > are completely implicit in other languages; one example: {rajycla} has a
> > "by
> > > standard" place (inherited from {clani}), which makes it clear that the
> > > "standard of tallness" matters in any discussion of height, and requires
> > a
> > > different selbri ({rajycla be zi'o}) to ignore it.
> > >
> > > It seems to me that spoken lojban will (almost) never use more than three
> > > places, common written lojban will behave similarly, and technical or
> > pedantic
> >
> > > lojban will have some words (depending on context) which use more places.
> > >
> > > {.ua ro di'u na'e se ganzu}
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Robin Lee Powell <
> > rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 02:12:43PM -0600, vitci'i wrote:
> > > >> On 12/16/2011 01:31 PM, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> > > >> > These places must die!
> > > >>
> > > >> I'm kind of curious to see how far this can be taken. What would
> > > >> happen if, even in gismu, we forbade any place that can be
> > > >> replaced by a modal?
> > > >
> > > >Can those places be replaced by a modal?  Which one?
> > > >
> > > >I have, fwiw, considered that posibility in my head as well.  I
> > > >think that's too much of some-other-language-that-isn't-Lojban.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Consider {cusku}.
> > > >>
> > > >> x1 (agent) expresses/says x2 (sedu'u/text/lu'e concept) for
> > > >> audience x3 via expressive medium x4.
> > > >>
> > > >> cusku1 is covered by {gau}, and cusku3 is covered by {ri'i}.
> > > >> cusku4 is covered by {xebe'i}. Though I'm stretching a bit, cusku2
> > > >> could be covered by {fi'o jufra}, leaving us with a zero-place
> > > >> gismu.
> > > >
> > > >*snrk*
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> I am vaguely imagining a language centered around modals rather
> > > >> than predicates, with selbri being created implicitly and nonce by
> > > >> the lists of their places. I'm not sure that this is different
> > > >> from all gismu having exactly one place.
> > > >
> > > >Yeah, as I say, I've pondered that as well as a thought experiment,
> > > >but it's a different language.  Probably a much more verbose one.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >-Robin
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
> > > >Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
> > > >is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
> > > >is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups
> > > >"lojban" group.
> > > >To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > >lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > > >For more options, visit this group at
> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > mu'o mi'e .arpis.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > > "lojban" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > >"lojban" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > >lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > > For more options, visit this group at
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
> > >
> >
> > --
> > http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
> > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
> > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
> > is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "lojban" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "lojban" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
> 
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
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> 

-- 
http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/

-- 
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