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Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 16:25:55 -0800
From: Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Mini-rant: mutce and traji must die.
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 Content preview:  No, no-one has actually given me any help yet. -Robin On Fri,
    Dec 16, 2011 at 05:23:28PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote: > I thought you already
    got that? I remember a couple of people saying they > at least knew it....
    > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 5:14 PM, Robin Lee Powell < > rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
    wrote: > > > when I get some LaTeX help, yes. > > > > -Robin > > > > On Fri,
    Dec 16, 2011 at 04:50:47PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > > Well, unless
    I'm mistaken, these are the *new* decision days, and Robin > > is > > > Decision
    Man. > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 4:20 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com
    > > >wrote: > > > > > > > Wish you'd been around in the decision days. >
   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > > > From: Robin
    Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> > > > > To: lojban@googlegroups.com
    > > > > Sent: Fri, December 16, 2011 5:14:41 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [lojban]
    Mini-rant: mutce and traji must die. > > > > > > > > See, I *like* {x1 is
    bluer than x2}. *That* is a good use of place > > > > structure; it gives
    you immediate access to extra meaning you might > > > > actually want with
    no extra syllables. > > > > > > > > -Robin > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 16,
    2011 at 03:08:38PM -0800, John E Clifford wrote: > > > > > Back in the day,
    most basic adjectives were inherently comparative: > > > > {blanu} was >
   > > > > > > > > > officially "x1 is bluer than x2" (with maybe a few more
   places -- > > this > > > > is a > > > > > Loglan word here, btw). This always
    raised the question, when you > > > > wanted to > > > > >use > > > > > >
   > > > > the merely attributive sense, "What is it bluer than when it is >
   > simply > > > > blue" > > > > >and > > > > > > > > > > the answer always
   was (though no one ever seemed to like) "the > > > > > standard/average/typical/....
    one of what ever x1 is relevantly at > > the > > > > moment", > > > > > >
    > > > > roughly "blue for a ...". I was usually elided in the "you know >
    > what I > > > > mean" > > > > > way, though the opponents always treated
    it as a "something" elision. > > > > (Using [...] 
 
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No, no-one has actually given me any help yet.

-Robin

On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 05:23:28PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> I thought you already got that? I remember a couple of people saying they
> at least knew it....
> 
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 5:14 PM, Robin Lee Powell <
> rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> 
> > when I get some LaTeX help, yes.
> >
> > -Robin
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 04:50:47PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> > > Well, unless I'm mistaken, these are the *new* decision days, and Robin
> > is
> > > Decision Man.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 4:20 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > Wish you'd been around in the decision days.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > From: Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
> > > > To: lojban@googlegroups.com
> > > > Sent: Fri, December 16, 2011 5:14:41 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [lojban] Mini-rant: mutce and traji must die.
> > > >
> > > > See, I *like* {x1 is bluer than x2}.  *That* is a good use of place
> > > > structure; it gives you immediate access to extra meaning you might
> > > > actually want with no extra syllables.
> > > >
> > > > -Robin
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 03:08:38PM -0800, John E Clifford wrote:
> > > > > Back in the day, most basic adjectives were inherently comparative:
> > > > {blanu} was
> > > > >
> > > > > officially "x1 is bluer than x2" (with maybe a few more places --
> > this
> > > > is a
> > > > > Loglan word here, btw).  This always raised the question, when you
> > > > wanted to
> > > > >use
> > > > >
> > > > > the merely attributive sense, "What is it bluer than when it is
> > simply
> > > > blue"
> > > > >and
> > > > >
> > > > > the answer always was (though no one ever seemed to like) "the
> > > > > standard/average/typical/.... one of what ever x1 is relevantly at
> > the
> > > > moment",
> > > > >
> > > > > roughly "blue for a ...".  I was usually elided in the "you know
> > what I
> > > > mean"
> > > > > way, though the opponents always treated it as a "something" elision.
> > > > (Using
> > > > > basic comparatives makes a couple of moves in semantics a lot easier,
> > > > which is
> > > >
> > > > > why it was used.  I miss it)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com>
> > > > > To: lojban@googlegroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Fri, December 16, 2011 2:36:13 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [lojban] Mini-rant: mutce and traji must die.
> > > > >
> > > > > One of the things I really like about lojban (in the abstract, not
> > > > necessarily
> > > >
> > > > > in practice) is that selbri have places which make explicit certain
> > > > things
> > > > >which
> > > > >
> > > > > are completely implicit in other languages; one example: {rajycla}
> > has a
> > > > "by
> > > > > standard" place (inherited from {clani}), which makes it clear that
> > the
> > > > > "standard of tallness" matters in any discussion of height, and
> > requires
> > > > a
> > > > > different selbri ({rajycla be zi'o}) to ignore it.
> > > > >
> > > > > It seems to me that spoken lojban will (almost) never use more than
> > three
> > > > > places, common written lojban will behave similarly, and technical or
> > > > pedantic
> > > >
> > > > > lojban will have some words (depending on context) which use more
> > places.
> > > > >
> > > > > {.ua ro di'u na'e se ganzu}
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Robin Lee Powell <
> > > > rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 02:12:43PM -0600, vitci'i wrote:
> > > > > >> On 12/16/2011 01:31 PM, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> > > > > >> > These places must die!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I'm kind of curious to see how far this can be taken. What would
> > > > > >> happen if, even in gismu, we forbade any place that can be
> > > > > >> replaced by a modal?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Can those places be replaced by a modal?  Which one?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I have, fwiw, considered that posibility in my head as well.  I
> > > > > >think that's too much of some-other-language-that-isn't-Lojban.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Consider {cusku}.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> x1 (agent) expresses/says x2 (sedu'u/text/lu'e concept) for
> > > > > >> audience x3 via expressive medium x4.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> cusku1 is covered by {gau}, and cusku3 is covered by {ri'i}.
> > > > > >> cusku4 is covered by {xebe'i}. Though I'm stretching a bit, cusku2
> > > > > >> could be covered by {fi'o jufra}, leaving us with a zero-place
> > > > > >> gismu.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >*snrk*
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> I am vaguely imagining a language centered around modals rather
> > > > > >> than predicates, with selbri being created implicitly and nonce by
> > > > > >> the lists of their places. I'm not sure that this is different
> > > > > >> from all gismu having exactly one place.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Yeah, as I say, I've pondered that as well as a thought experiment,
> > > > > >but it's a different language.  Probably a much more verbose one.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >-Robin
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--
> > > > > >http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
> > > > > >Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
> > > > > >is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
> > > > > >is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--
> > > > > >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > > Groups
> > > > > >"lojban" group.
> > > > > >To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > > >lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > >For more options, visit this group at
> > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > mu'o mi'e .arpis.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups
> > > > > "lojban" group.
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> > > > > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > For more options, visit this group at
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> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> > > > >"lojban" group.
> > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > >lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
> > > > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
> > > > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
> > > > is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
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> > > > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
> > >
> > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> > > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> > >
> >
> > --
> > http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
> > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
> > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
> > is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
> >
> > --
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> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
> 
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
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> 

-- 
http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/

-- 
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