Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]:38530) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RiWjL-0000VU-ME; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 11:42:40 -0800 Received: by dajx4 with SMTP id x4sf15534855daj.16 for ; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 11:42:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition; bh=tHBPNh035QkT+vyQDL9y37nlOMdzifuvUl7Gq15Bdgo=; b=Zo+kxi3PDuS5nt2KnuAxV4QocYs4b+pkUEZ4lwA3Bt1gBdeWep/wUyxa0J9Db6ZDwX 6sUb6zwlUhwTb6F+6b80/sm/Fbk5jf62wvAnRTS3gdMum82BjcbhnFR2bTpM3LcqnRPv +wKTN5cPgDFmKXXu8uBHYwrTO5lpaEAmjzuhY= Received: by 10.68.122.169 with SMTP id lt9mr9085595pbb.18.1325706145865; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 11:42:25 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.35.167 with SMTP id i7ls19664032pbj.1.gmail; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 11:42:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.190.99 with SMTP id gp3mr15959618pbc.1.1325706145260; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 11:42:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.190.99 with SMTP id gp3mr15959617pbc.1.1325706145249; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 11:42:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from stodi.digitalkingdom.org (mail.digitalkingdom.org. [173.13.139.236]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n3si65876557pbd.1.2012.01.04.11.42.24 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 04 Jan 2012 11:42:24 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.236 as permitted sender) client-ip=173.13.139.236; Received: from rlpowell by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RiWj9-0000VP-Qj for lojban@googlegroups.com; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 11:42:23 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 11:42:23 -0800 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Conversational ability test. Message-ID: <20120104194223.GR20463@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> Mail-Followup-To: lojban@googlegroups.com References: <20120104181701.GQ20463@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>

MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.236 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / I actually had it in mind as a test for both people. -Robin On Wed, Jan 04, 2012 at 02:35:56PM -0500, MorphemeAddict wrote: > I understand Robin's suggestion to be a test for just one person, > even though two people are involved. So if the testee knows Lojban > well enough to talk the 'tester' through solving whatever the > puzzle or other task is, then he 'knows' Lojban. The 'tester', > OTOH, should be a native Lojban speaker with no other language in > common with the testee. > > I don't think this would be an adequate test, but it's a start. > > stevo > > On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 1:40 PM, .arpis. wrote: > > > Are "sentences" made up of lojban words which are incorrect > > grammatically lojban? What about if both people misuse (by implicit > > contract) certain words (I can't think of a good example now)? What if > > they habitually forget to separate the main bridi from the sumti > > before it? What about lojban with a lot of "zoi" and "zo'oi" and "me > > la"? Where is the line drawn between incorrect lojban, bad lojban, and > > not lojban? > > > > My complaints aside, that's a really cool idea. > > > > I may be colored by recent experience, but bootstrapping using already > > made games might be effective. > > > > I'm thinking specifically about Portal 2 and IloMilo (although both > > have mechanisms for avoiding need for any conversation), but more > > generally speaking, playing a cooperative puzzle game might do. > > > > On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Robin Lee Powell > > wrote: > > > > > > tsani and I independently came up with this test within a couple of > > > hours of each other yesterday (!?), and it seems like it helps > > > people grok what "I can speak Lojban" means. > > > > > > Stick two people in two adjacent rooms; they can hear each other but > > > not see each other. Present them with a co-operative puzzle to exit > > > the room. Shoot them :) if they speak anything but Lojban. > > > > > > People who can get out of the room "speak Lojban". That doesn't > > > mean they're "fluent", whatever the hell that means. But they can > > > get shit done. > > > > > > Now, here's the fun part: can you come up with a set of tasks that > > > we could implement on a couple of laptops so we could actually try > > > this at jbonunsla? > > > > > > For bonus points, can you come up with tasks that have various > > > difficulty scales? How about tasks that require something other > > > than simple directional instructions (i.e. "OK, now try the button > > > on the right")? > > > > > > -Robin > > > > > > -- > > > http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > > > .i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go'i li'u .e > > > lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e > > > lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni > > li'u > > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "lojban" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > mu'o mi'e .arpis. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "lojban" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. .i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go'i li'u .e lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni li'u -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.