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Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 16:49:03 -0800
From: Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Conversational ability test.
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For me the goal was to test *both* people, not just one of them.  So
I find having one of them be particularily advanced to be counter to
my idea.

The test is the task, not the other person.

-Robin

On Wed, Jan 04, 2012 at 07:35:06PM -0500, MorphemeAddict wrote:
> Having a native speaker is preferable, but can be replaced by using the
> most fluent speakers available. Lojban has always been a bootstrap
> operation.
> 
> stevo
> 
> On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 4:17 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>wrote:
> 
> > Or a doable one, in the absence of said native speaker (who could probably
> > tell without all this apparatus).
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > *From:* MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>
> > *To:* lojban@googlegroups.com
> > *Sent:* Wed, January 4, 2012 1:35:56 PM
> > *Subject:* Re: [lojban] Conversational ability test.
> >
> > I understand Robin's suggestion to be a test for just one person, even
> > though two people are involved. So if the testee knows Lojban well enough
> > to talk the 'tester' through solving whatever the puzzle or other task is,
> > then he 'knows' Lojban. The 'tester', OTOH, should be a native Lojban
> > speaker with no other language in common with the testee.
> >
> > I don't think this would be an adequate test, but it's a start.
> >
> > stevo
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 1:40 PM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> >> Are "sentences" made up of lojban words which are incorrect
> >> grammatically lojban? What about if both people misuse (by implicit
> >> contract) certain words (I can't think of a good example now)? What if
> >> they habitually forget to separate the main bridi from the sumti
> >> before it? What about lojban with a lot of "zoi" and "zo'oi" and "me
> >> la"? Where is the line drawn between incorrect lojban, bad lojban, and
> >> not lojban?
> >>
> >> My complaints aside, that's a really cool idea.
> >>
> >> I may be colored by recent experience, but bootstrapping using already
> >> made games might be effective.
> >>
> >> I'm thinking specifically about Portal 2 and IloMilo (although both
> >> have mechanisms for avoiding need for any conversation), but more
> >> generally speaking, playing a cooperative puzzle game might do.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Robin Lee Powell
> >> <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > tsani and I independently came up with this test within a couple of
> >> > hours of each other yesterday (!?), and it seems like it helps
> >> > people grok what "I can speak Lojban" means.
> >> >
> >> > Stick two people in two adjacent rooms; they can hear each other but
> >> > not see each other.  Present them with a co-operative puzzle to exit
> >> > the room.  Shoot them :) if they speak anything but Lojban.
> >> >
> >> > People who can get out of the room "speak Lojban".  That doesn't
> >> > mean they're "fluent", whatever the hell that means. But they can
> >> > get shit done.
> >> >
> >> > Now, here's the fun part: can you come up with a set of tasks that
> >> > we could implement on a couple of laptops so we could actually try
> >> > this at jbonunsla?
> >> >
> >> > For bonus points, can you come up with tasks that have various
> >> > difficulty scales?  How about tasks that require something other
> >> > than simple directional instructions (i.e. "OK, now try the button
> >> > on the right")?
> >> >
> >> > -Robin
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
> >> > .i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go'i li'u .e
> >> > lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e
> >> > lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu
> >> sofybakni li'u
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >> Groups "lojban" group.
> >> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> >> > For more options, visit this group at
> >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> mu'o mi'e .arpis.
> >>
> >> --
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> >>
> >>
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-- 
http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
.i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go'i li'u .e
lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e
lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni li'u

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