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Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 14:31:54 -0500
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Bayesian evidential?
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AFAICT, this would not fall into the structure of lojban evidentials at
all, but neither would "I'm 90% sure"; {la'a} and {ju'o} are the closest
you'd get. Evidentials do not take arguments.

{fi'o te kanpe xokau} (replace xokau with some number) uses an experimental
gismu, but conveys, in otherwise standard lojban, a linear certainty, and
is intended to be used with indefinite numbers.

{de'o} appears to be the mekso operator for log; I guess you could say
{fi'o te kanpe li de'o ni'u xa}, or define an experimental cmavo in the BAI
class to mean something similar.

On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 11:02 AM, DataPacRat <datapacrat@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've been trying to get used to Lojban's indicators, and have at least
> a general feeling for many of them. But I'm finding that Lojban's
> standard evidentials don't quite seem to cover a way I'd like to
> express myself.
>
> To try to summarize: in a book dealing with statistics and probability
> and Bayes Theory, E.T. Jaynes has shown how it can be useful to deal
> with probability logarithmically rather than linearly; and with a bit
> of simplification, applying this to Yudkowsky's theories of everyday
> rationality, it would be useful to have an evidential that could
> assign an integer's value as the strength of the speaker's belief in
> what's being said. For some rough English examples: "(Bayes 6) It's
> going to rain today" meaning I believe there's an 80% of rain; or
> "I'll be taking the bus (Bayes -20) home", meaning I think there's
> only a 1% chance it's the bus I'll be going home in. (A bit of further
> explanation on these numbers is at
> http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/4d5bf17b86585 .)
>
> If nothing else, I'd like to be able to use a construction like this
> in some SF stories with a character who likes Lojban, even if this
> can't be part of 'real' Lojban. So at the very least, could anybody
> here recommend some way to construct even a fake evidential to do
> this, which won't have too many unfortunate collisions with real
> Lojban?
>
> For example, I'm thinking that a currently-unused set of letters in
> the indicator/UI pattern could be appropriated for the task (perhaps
> something close to the existing "la'a"), followed by the number,
> optionally followed by "do'u" if needed to keep the numbers from
> getting mixed up with the rest of the sentence; but I'm sure there's
> some reason why that's infeasible.
>
>
> ki'esai,
> --
> DataPacRat
> lu .iacu'i ma krinu lo du'u .ei mi krici la'e di'u li'u traji lo ka
> vajni fo lo preti
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
>
>


-- 
mu'o mi'e .arpis.

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AFAICT, this would not fall into the structure of lojban evidentials at all=
, but neither would &quot;I&#39;m 90% sure&quot;; {la&#39;a} and {ju&#39;o}=
 are the closest you&#39;d get. Evidentials do not take arguments.<br><br>

{fi&#39;o te kanpe xokau} (replace xokau with some number) uses an experime=
ntal gismu, but conveys, in otherwise standard lojban, a linear certainty, =
and is intended to be used with indefinite numbers.<br><br>{de&#39;o} appea=
rs to be the mekso operator for log; I guess you could say {fi&#39;o te kan=
pe li de&#39;o ni&#39;u xa}, or define an experimental cmavo in the BAI cla=
ss to mean something similar.<br>

<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 11:02 AM, DataPacRat=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:datapacrat@gmail.com">datapacrat@g=
mail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

I&#39;ve been trying to get used to Lojban&#39;s indicators, and have at le=
ast<br>
a general feeling for many of them. But I&#39;m finding that Lojban&#39;s<b=
r>
standard evidentials don&#39;t quite seem to cover a way I&#39;d like to<br=
>
express myself.<br>
<br>
To try to summarize: in a book dealing with statistics and probability<br>
and Bayes Theory, E.T. Jaynes has shown how it can be useful to deal<br>
with probability logarithmically rather than linearly; and with a bit<br>
of simplification, applying this to Yudkowsky&#39;s theories of everyday<br=
>
rationality, it would be useful to have an evidential that could<br>
assign an integer&#39;s value as the strength of the speaker&#39;s belief i=
n<br>
what&#39;s being said. For some rough English examples: &quot;(Bayes 6) It&=
#39;s<br>
going to rain today&quot; meaning I believe there&#39;s an 80% of rain; or<=
br>
&quot;I&#39;ll be taking the bus (Bayes -20) home&quot;, meaning I think th=
ere&#39;s<br>
only a 1% chance it&#39;s the bus I&#39;ll be going home in. (A bit of furt=
her<br>
explanation on these numbers is at<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/4d5bf17b86585" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/4d5bf17b86585</a> .)<br>
<br>
If nothing else, I&#39;d like to be able to use a construction like this<br=
>
in some SF stories with a character who likes Lojban, even if this<br>
can&#39;t be part of &#39;real&#39; Lojban. So at the very least, could any=
body<br>
here recommend some way to construct even a fake evidential to do<br>
this, which won&#39;t have too many unfortunate collisions with real<br>
Lojban?<br>
<br>
For example, I&#39;m thinking that a currently-unused set of letters in<br>
the indicator/UI pattern could be appropriated for the task (perhaps<br>
something close to the existing &quot;la&#39;a&quot;), followed by the numb=
er,<br>
optionally followed by &quot;do&#39;u&quot; if needed to keep the numbers f=
rom<br>
getting mixed up with the rest of the sentence; but I&#39;m sure there&#39;=
s<br>
some reason why that&#39;s infeasible.<br>
<br>
<br>
ki&#39;esai,<br>
--<br>
DataPacRat<br>
lu .iacu&#39;i ma krinu lo du&#39;u .ei mi krici la&#39;e di&#39;u li&#39;u=
 traji lo ka<br>
vajni fo lo preti<br>
<font color=3D"#888888"><br>
--<br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.=
com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
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subscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
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roup/lojban?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/lojba=
n?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
<br>
</font></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;=
e .arpis.<br><br>

<p></p>

-- <br />
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