Received: from mail-bk0-f61.google.com ([209.85.214.61]:64916)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhCR69_5BBoEFWifbA@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1Rwd9I-0006LJ-CW; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 09:23:46 -0800
Received: by bkty15 with SMTP id y15sf5900808bkt.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 09:23:32 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
         :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=rEDfQ7HqNrQlbIIBpsYOkyDI/vMNPrdpWKQQorQpjcE=;
        b=wHPOyEs0/SuV5ABSuvfP8RYl1JiR3kIPUdMB/2JW0UAfTsNZfvCRjRVBUHmsQ8YfE8
         qzdNzKwLGTJcR5IEBWcHoq1LosJiOCdMOkLX4Q4Iynto4s4TVnaxue/Pqw3wnbtiemQn
         OPyJxmKjgERcpq3/O9dtzTwQCJAJWvTWX2UcQ=
Received: by 10.204.128.141 with SMTP id k13mr726254bks.13.1329067409899;
        Sun, 12 Feb 2012 09:23:29 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.204.155.76 with SMTP id r12ls11039438bkw.3.gmail; Sun, 12 Feb
 2012 09:23:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.204.156.135 with SMTP id x7mr1135173bkw.2.1329067409080;
        Sun, 12 Feb 2012 09:23:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.204.156.135 with SMTP id x7mr1135172bkw.2.1329067409058;
        Sun, 12 Feb 2012 09:23:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-lpp01m020-f176.google.com (mail-lpp01m020-f176.google.com [209.85.217.176])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 20si19165765bko.3.2012.02.12.09.23.28
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Sun, 12 Feb 2012 09:23:28 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.217.176;
Received: by lboi15 with SMTP id i15so3012087lbo.21
        for <lojban@googlegroups.com>; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 09:23:28 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.152.148.9 with SMTP id to9mr9244407lab.1.1329067408098; Sun,
 12 Feb 2012 09:23:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.152.148.225 with HTTP; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 09:23:28 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <201202121212.05119.phma@phma.optus.nu>
References: <CAAQ0imNYxzc599U8C+SmWbvue1mV+kXk_We3nti5hnx4+=BNkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<201202120811.10298.phma@phma.optus.nu>
	<CAAQ0imPO4zSBWomf_n54D81pbNv1nK7iP-sGfYMKzbQWGoAjMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<201202121212.05119.phma@phma.optus.nu>
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:23:28 -0700
Message-ID: <CAMKwHj0mQC0uWX-sGt0q9m8RG9ix+08VMvm=xdfoptCV3zJt0g@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] vowel and stress
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.176 as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:googlegroups-manage+1004133512417+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f234459be03fc04b8c79e43
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Spam_score: 0.0
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /

--e89a8f234459be03fc04b8c79e43
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

How do you type an accented character on a U.S. keyboard? We don't have a
compose key, unless we're running Linux and set, say, caps-lock to it....

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 10:12 AM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:

> On Sunday, February 12, 2012 11:33:53 Remo Dentato wrote:
> > {iY}. Oh! I thought that the schwa should never be stressed.
>
> A schwa by itself is not, by default, stressed unless all vowels in the
> word
> are schwas. A schwa in a diphthong can have the default stress.
>
> In Albanian, the schwa is a normal vowel and can be stressed. We may want
> to
> borrow names from Albanian.
>
> > It should be pronounced {bangrkor=C4=8Da} right? I just realized I don'=
t
> > know any rule to split up consonant clusters!
> > I would go with {bangr,ko,re,a} but I'm not sure.
>
> {ban,gr,ko,r=C3=A9,a}. The "r" is a syllabic consonant, which is ignored =
when
> placing stress.
>
> > Yes, I see that the explicit mark of accent is only needed for cmevla.
>
> True, though a cmavo can be accented on a non-default syllable and you ma=
y
> want to mark it in poetry.
>
> > Talking about this, I would really like to see the use of capitalized
> > syllable go away as a mean to mark the stress. We do have accents for
> > this (any accent would work). I understand that back in time, US
> > keyboards didn't have accented characters but now there should be no
> > reason.
> > I always found awkward to say "lojban alphabet only uses roman lower
> > case letters" just to have to say few moments later that also the
> > capital letters are used. If they are :(
>
> I agree.
>
> Pierre
> --
> ve ka'a ro klaji la .romas. se jmaji
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>
>


--=20
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.


--e89a8f234459be03fc04b8c79e43
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

How do you type an accented character on a U.S. keyboard? We don&#39;t have=
 a compose key, unless we&#39;re running Linux and set, say, caps-lock to i=
t....<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 10:12 AM, P=
ierre Abbat <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:phma@phma.optus.nu">phm=
a@phma.optus.nu</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">On Sunday, February 12, 20=
12 11:33:53 Remo Dentato wrote:<br>
&gt; {iY}. Oh! I thought that the schwa should never be stressed.<br>
<br>
</div>A schwa by itself is not, by default, stressed unless all vowels in t=
he word<br>
are schwas. A schwa in a diphthong can have the default stress.<br>
<br>
In Albanian, the schwa is a normal vowel and can be stressed. We may want t=
o<br>
borrow names from Albanian.<br>
<br>
&gt; It should be pronounced {bangrkor=C4=8Da} right? I just realized I don=
&#39;t<br>
<div class=3D"im">&gt; know any rule to split up consonant clusters!<br>
&gt; I would go with {bangr,ko,re,a} but I&#39;m not sure.<br>
<br>
</div>{ban,gr,ko,r=C3=A9,a}. The &quot;r&quot; is a syllabic consonant, whi=
ch is ignored when<br>
placing stress.<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
&gt; Yes, I see that the explicit mark of accent is only needed for cmevla.=
<br>
<br>
</div>True, though a cmavo can be accented on a non-default syllable and yo=
u may<br>
want to mark it in poetry.<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
&gt; Talking about this, I would really like to see the use of capitalized<=
br>
&gt; syllable go away as a mean to mark the stress. We do have accents for<=
br>
&gt; this (any accent would work). I understand that back in time, US<br>
&gt; keyboards didn&#39;t have accented characters but now there should be =
no<br>
&gt; reason.<br>
&gt; I always found awkward to say &quot;lojban alphabet only uses roman lo=
wer<br>
&gt; case letters&quot; just to have to say few moments later that also the=
<br>
&gt; capital letters are used. If they are :(<br>
<br>
</div>I agree.<br>
<br>
Pierre<br>
<font color=3D"#888888">--<br>
ve ka&#39;a ro klaji la .romas. se jmaji<br>
</font><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
--<br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.=
com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban%2Bun=
subscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/lojba=
n?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi=
&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l=
uk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. =
:D )<br>
<br>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.<br />



--e89a8f234459be03fc04b8c79e43--