=A0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wi= ki/ILR_scale=A0

stevo

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 2:26 PM, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:
=

I use a somewhat different definition of 'fluent'. If you can get y= our point across, even (or especially) if you have to paraphrase, then you = are fluent. I think you passed with ease.

The US De= partment of Defense use still a different, more specific definition. More c= omplete definitions exist, but they're harder to find.=A0

"LANGUAGE PROFICIENCY LEVEL DEFINITION
<= div>
Language Proficiency Level I:

S= peaking:

Reading:

Able to= satisfy minimum courtesy requirements and maintain very simple face-to-
face conversations on familiar topics.

Suffic= ient comprehension to read very simple connected written material.

Language Proficiency Level II:

Speaking:

Reading:

Able t= o satisfy most work requirements with language usage that is acceptable
and effective. Able to speak the language with sufficient structural=

accuracy and vocabulary to participate effectively in most formal and<= /div>
informal conversations on practical, social and professional topi= cs.

Able to read within a normal range of speed an= d with almost complete comprehension a

variety of material on unfamiliar subjects. Can comprehend a variety o= f styles and forms
pertinent to professional needs. Rarely misint= erprets texts.

Language Proficiency Level III:

Speaking:

Reading:
<= br>
Able to use the language fluently and accurately on all level= s normally pertinent to
professional needs. Language usage and ab= ility to function are fully successful.

Able to read fluently and accurately all styles and for= ms of the language pertinent to
professional needs."

stevo

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digi= talkingdom.org> wrote:

(This sort of dovetails with the earlier thread about how "lock two people in a room and present them with two-person puzzles of various
complexity" as a way of producing somewhat "objective" fluen= cy
tests)

OK, so people keep asking me if I'm fluent.

When I ask people what they mean by fluent, they usually say
something that boils down to "you can say whatever you need to say&quo= t;.

So, let me give you an example of why that metric *simply doesn't
work* in the case of Lojban.

The other day RJ was watching basketball, and I was playing with one
of the babies, and she was, surprisingly, avidly watching the TV.
Having nothing better to do, I decided to explain basketball to her,
in minimal detail.

This took me the better part of 10 minutes, and involved a great
deal of stammering and long pauses.

I could re-do it in a couple of minutes of smooth Lojban.

The issue is simple: to the best of my knowledge, *no-one* has
*ever* described or talked about basketball in Lojban before. =A0So I
had to come up with terms for the name of the game itself {ti poi
nanmu cu ci'erkei la julne bolci}, the act of dribbling {bolci minra gasnu}, the concept of travelling {bajra se cau lo nu [go'i]}, and
making a basket {punji le bolci le julne}.

I think that anyone asking me if I'm fluent that saw that would say
"that was halting and lame; no, you're not", but what if I ex= plained
to them that no-one has ever done that before? =A0That I had to make
everything up as I went along?

The word "fluent" simply doesn't effectively apply in a conte= xt
where the language is so under-used that any speaker *regularily*
encounters situations in which no idiom or terminology exists, at
all. =A0It's like putting two bushmen in Time's square, asking them= to
describe what they see, and then accusing them of not being fluent
in their native tongue, except with everything.

-Robin

--
http://singinst.org/= : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
.i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go'i li'u = .e
lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e = lu go'i na'i li'u .e
lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mam= ta be do cu sofybakni li'u

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