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[213.165.64.22]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id jz14si121233vdb.1.2012.02.14.11.38.20; Tue, 14 Feb 2012 11:38:20 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of sajesh@fantasymail.de designates 213.165.64.22 as permitted sender) client-ip=213.165.64.22; Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 14 Feb 2012 19:38:19 -0000 Received: from p57A09203.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.1.33]) [87.160.146.3] by mail.gmx.net (mp004) with SMTP; 14 Feb 2012 20:38:19 +0100 X-Authenticated: #54293076 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/Gx/tFRvLGN7hkNnHiNCg7SHqSKlGdVkSAuakooP U710DowQjpTDyU Message-ID: <4F3AB82A.6000904@fantasymail.de> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 20:38:18 +0100 From: Sajesh User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:9.0) Gecko/20111222 Thunderbird/9.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] About the word "fluent". References: <20120214184839.GW2167@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <4F3AB350.9050304@gmx.de> <20120214192348.GX2167@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> In-Reply-To: <20120214192348.GX2167@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Original-Sender: sajesh@fantasymail.de X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of sajesh@fantasymail.de designates 213.165.64.22 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=sajesh@fantasymail.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Am 14.02.2012 20:23, schrieb Robin Lee Powell: > On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 08:17:36PM +0100, selpa'i wrote: >> I'm not sure the bushmen analogy holds. li'o > I think that's really optomistic. Sure, they might call the cars > "magic horses", but they wouldn't both instantly think of that, or > agree on it. They'd be like "Uhh, that... thingy... what the hell > should we call that?" "Ummm, I dunno. Fast box?" "That's kind of > lame. How about magic horse?" "Oh, yeah, that'll work." [ignoring > that bushmen don't have horses, or anything like them (that is: > things humans ride to go faster), to the best of my knowledge] > > You seem to be assuming that they'd instantly come up with the > appropriate new vocab, which I think is deeply unreasonable. > I think what you described there is a very fluent conversation in which two individuals agree on a name for a new object. Fluency is real-time creativity and it's being demonstrated here. >> And it doesn't matter what the reasons for that are, the fact >> stays the same. > Then it is physically impossible to be fluent in Lojban at this > time, because this will happen all the time every day until idiom is > built up. And here I disagree. I am asserting that with the current Lojban, you *can* be fluent. Not having lujvo for some things doesn't mean you can't talk about them by describing them in "simpler" terms. > "That is, I believe it's possible to make do with what we > have right now, " > I agree, and I did. > You did, but it took you time and effort. Fluency means speed and ease. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.