Received: from mail-pw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.160.61]:42484) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RxahA-0007aO-B8; Wed, 15 Feb 2012 00:58:42 -0800 Received: by pbbjt11 with SMTP id jt11sf1574260pbb.16 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2012 00:58:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition; bh=lfWwL9b0hGdHOLFKZ7oNkeFNX2LKYVBvml6t0N6ERKo=; b=TzMe+1zOyAKP3A8LCbTn2I+rzgW9X4mo+mfyPoALkeeaEsE4U+1rWHQsww0iJfDVQd N7Zwe/a0Z6rt92RjeG9xsrQxdnNqtAEf64gSFVs/Aj+hkHhJNMH6FAQ8EeYauDpYw/l1 SX2yKrtSovSTSTavuJ07NyaXB3Md5+fcZh+l0= Received: by 10.68.122.194 with SMTP id lu2mr81476pbb.7.1329296307625; Wed, 15 Feb 2012 00:58:27 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.35.167 with SMTP id i7ls4251846pbj.1.gmail; Wed, 15 Feb 2012 00:58:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.74.201 with SMTP id w9mr451378pbv.0.1329296306722; Wed, 15 Feb 2012 00:58:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.74.201 with SMTP id w9mr451377pbv.0.1329296306711; Wed, 15 Feb 2012 00:58:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from stodi.digitalkingdom.org (mail.digitalkingdom.org. [173.13.139.236]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n6si5547722pbg.2.2012.02.15.00.58.26 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 15 Feb 2012 00:58:26 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.236 as permitted sender) client-ip=173.13.139.236; Received: from rlpowell by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Rxagz-0007aL-HG for lojban@googlegroups.com; Wed, 15 Feb 2012 00:58:25 -0800 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 00:58:25 -0800 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] About the word "fluent". Message-ID: <20120215085825.GD25255@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> Mail-Followup-To: lojban@googlegroups.com References: <20120214184839.GW2167@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <4F3AB350.9050304@gmx.de> <20120214192348.GX2167@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <4F3AB82A.6000904@fantasymail.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4F3AB82A.6000904@fantasymail.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.236 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Sajesh: did you mean to add something here? -Robin On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 08:38:18PM +0100, Sajesh wrote: > Am 14.02.2012 20:23, schrieb Robin Lee Powell: > >On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 08:17:36PM +0100, selpa'i wrote: > >>I'm not sure the bushmen analogy holds. li'o > >I think that's really optomistic. Sure, they might call the cars > >"magic horses", but they wouldn't both instantly think of that, or > >agree on it. They'd be like "Uhh, that... thingy... what the hell > >should we call that?" "Ummm, I dunno. Fast box?" "That's kind of > >lame. How about magic horse?" "Oh, yeah, that'll work." [ignoring > >that bushmen don't have horses, or anything like them (that is: > >things humans ride to go faster), to the best of my knowledge] > > > >You seem to be assuming that they'd instantly come up with the > >appropriate new vocab, which I think is deeply unreasonable. > > > I think what you described there is a very fluent conversation in > which two individuals agree on a name for a new object. > Fluency is real-time creativity and it's being demonstrated here. > > >>And it doesn't matter what the reasons for that are, the fact > >>stays the same. > >Then it is physically impossible to be fluent in Lojban at this > >time, because this will happen all the time every day until idiom is > >built up. > And here I disagree. I am asserting that with the current Lojban, > you *can* be fluent. Not having lujvo for some things doesn't mean > you can't talk about them by describing them in "simpler" terms. > > >"That is, I believe it's possible to make do with what we > >have right now, " > >I agree, and I did. > > > You did, but it took you time and effort. Fluency means speed and ease. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. .i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go'i li'u .e lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni li'u -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.