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Subject: Re: [lojban] About the word "fluent".
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Not remembering words is not a sign of non-fluency. It happens to native
speakers all the time. And to me, 'native' implies 'fluent'.

stevo

On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think even that happening once in a while is ok.  One of my co-workers
> is German who I would say is fluent in English but who every now and then
> will stop and have to ask "what is that word that means...".
>
> I think it's unreasonable to say that a person isn't fluent just because
> they don't know every word.
>
> I think commonness of the word has to come into play.  If a person
> struggles to remember the word "person" I'd say they're not fluent but a
> person who struggles to remember "aggregate" could definitely be "fluent".
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 2:58 PM, Robin Lee Powell <
> rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 08:17:36PM +0100, selpa'i wrote:
>> > You are not fluent in Lojban, based on what you described.
>>
>> To be ultra-clear: I'm *not* fluent, I just don't think that what I
>> actually described is sufficient to clearly, cut-and-dried determine
>> that.
>>
>> How I now I'm not fluent is that I'm sitting there going "Now, wait,
>> what's the place structure of julne again?  Oh, hmm, was it julne or
>> junle?", and that sort of shit.
>>
>> -Robin
>>
>> --
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Not remembering words is not a sign of non-fluency. It happens to native sp=
eakers all the time. And to me, &#39;native&#39; implies &#39;fluent&#39;.=
=A0<div><br></div><div>stevo<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb =
15, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Luke Bergen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lu=
keabergen@gmail.com">lukeabergen@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I think even that happening once in a while =
is ok. =A0One of my co-workers is German who I would say is fluent in Engli=
sh but who every now and then will stop and have to ask &quot;what is that =
word that means...&quot;.<div>



<br></div><div>I think it&#39;s unreasonable to say that a person isn&#39;t=
 fluent just because they don&#39;t know every word.</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>I think commonness of the word has to come into play. =A0If a person str=
uggles to remember the word &quot;person&quot; I&#39;d say they&#39;re not =
fluent but a person who struggles to remember &quot;aggregate&quot; could d=
efinitely be &quot;fluent&quot;.<div>

<div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br>

<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 2:58 PM, Robin Lee P=
owell <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org" =
target=3D"_blank">rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #c=
cc solid;padding-left:1ex">



<div>On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 08:17:36PM +0100, selpa&#39;i wrote:<br>
</div><div>&gt; You are not fluent in Lojban, based on what you described.<=
br>
<br>
</div>To be ultra-clear: I&#39;m *not* fluent, I just don&#39;t think that =
what I<br>
actually described is sufficient to clearly, cut-and-dried determine<br>
that.<br>
<br>
How I now I&#39;m not fluent is that I&#39;m sitting there going &quot;Now,=
 wait,<br>
what&#39;s the place structure of julne again? =A0Oh, hmm, was it julne or<=
br>
junle?&quot;, and that sort of shit.<br>
<span><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
-Robin<br>
</font></span><div><div><br>
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<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div><div><div></div><div c=
lass=3D"h5">

<p></p>

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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

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